Behind enemy lines: A night at the Barclays Center

Amit Badlani

Before the season started, there was a lot of chatter between the New York teams about who would rule the Atlantic Division. Both the Knicks and Nets started out slow. Now, the Nets have hit their stride while the Knicks are still sputtering. Sunday was simply more of the same.

After watching the Knicks fall apart in the second half against the Thunder on national television, I took the subway down to Brooklyn for a freelance gig to cover the Nets matchup against the Pelicans. Ryan Anderson, Jrue Holiday, and Tyreke Evans would not play for New Orleans in this game. They had still found a way to win six of eight coming in to Kings County by running through Anthony Davis.

The Nets came out of the gates by playing strong team defense, and that continued for all four quarters, which is something that I haven’t seen out of the Knicks for a while. The Pelicans were limited to only 28 first half points, 14 in each of the first two quarters. Since Brooklyn’s vets sat out for a majority of the second half, New Orleans scored 53 the rest of the way to make the final 93-81 score look somewhat competitive.

Anyway, defense – that’s the difference between the Knicks and Nets. Since January 14, the Knicks have gone 5-9. They’ve allowed over 100 points in 8 of those 9 losses. Meanwhile, the Nets have gone 8-4 since then, allowing a paltry average of 97 points per game.

For the Knicks, you can blame it on Tyson Chandler not being up to full strength, Raymond Felton for not defending ball handlers well, Mike Woodson for wanting to switch on every pick, etc.

I can’t say I’ve been in both locker rooms enough to personally sense any differences in demeanor, but one thing is for certain. If both teams’ defensive mentalities remain the way they are, the difference between the Knicks and Nets will be that one team will be playoff bound while the other will be home bound (and you know which one is which).

45 comments
JayfromtheFix
JayfromtheFix

repost:


So its being reported that the Suns are looking for veteran help at C cause they are surprisingly in contention and Plumlee has slowed down a bit after his hot start. With that being said the Knicks should call them up and offer TC, Felton and Shump for Okafor, bledsoe and a first round pick. 


I know it leaves the knicks vulnerable at the 5 but I am ok with Tyler, Aldrich and AB playing the 5 for the rest of this year with Amare an Kmart getting spot mins there when healthy. It is worth it to get a pg and a pick even if Bledsoe is still injured. With this trade we might get worst to finish the season defensively but it helps for the future. 


With this trade the Knicks get their PG of the future ( yes Bledsoe would be the pg of the future he is young and has a ton of upside). With this trade more playing time will be there for Tyler to play and learn ( and yes make mistakes) on the job and progress. With this trade the future looks a little brighter where the draft pick is in a deep class if we are lucky we can land another impact young player (hopefully at PF). 


The Knicks need to make a call to PHX before the trade deadline.

Sandro
Sandro

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l3l59kt

Knicks get: Perkins, Turner, Jackson, Wroten
OKC gets: Chandler, Shumpert, Udrih
Philly gets: JR Smith, Sefolosha, 2014 Thunder 1st rounder

Knicks get Jackson, PG of the future. They get Wroten, a young PG with tons of potential to grow and Evan Turner, a wingman that can be Melo's 2nd option, while filling in the defensive void left from Shumpert. All this while getting rid of JR's long contrac and antics.

OKC gets Chandler, the defensive anchor that they need to really contend, while not commiting money long term. They'd get a younger Sefolosha in Shumpert and Udrih to split minutes with Fisher on the backup PG spot. Those are two NBA Champions behind Westbrook. And they do all this while getting rid of Perkins contract. Their 1st rounder will be a late one so they won't value it that much, they'd be okay sacrificing it for a DPOY like Chandler and All-Rookie like Shumpert.

Philadelphia gets Sefolosha, that can defend like Turner, and JR, that can score like Turner. They also get the 1st rounder that they're looking for to realease him, and although it's a late one, they won't get a better offer than this. Turner will be gone in the summer anyway, so they'd basically be trading Turner for a 1st rounder and Wroten for JR + Thabo. Hard to beat.<


I think it's a fair enpugh trade to all teams, that meets everythings that their looking for. OKC gets their All-Star Center, Knicks get their PG of the future, and Philly gets yet another 1st rounder.

Thoughts?


newyorker9
newyorker9

woodson said he'll be back after all star break, LOL yeah and i'm going to win the lottery

newyorker9
newyorker9

why, why, why am i a knicks-mets-jets fan. 

ds2488
ds2488

It all comes down to coaching.  The Nets had a ton of new players to go with a new coach, and the injury to Lopez ended up being a blessing (as I predicted because he's so overrated).  Kidd has developed as a coach and given the Nets an identity.


We know the deal here...Kidd was most likely the coach last year as well when we had our success, as so far this year Woody has done one of the worst "coaching" jobs in recent memory and earned about 1000 different firings by now.  


Hopefully we can somehow turn it around despite this completely incompetent "coach", or even better we will fire him as we should have done 20 games ago. 

Chris
Chris

Been there , Nets play better ball on both ends. They show evidence of coaching, not so much watching the Knicks. They are the better team presently

rico
rico

Don't dis Amit for speaking the truth, if not the obvious. 


The Knicks might have the most elite player in NY (for now) but certainly not the better roster or attitude.



Chris
Chris

@Biggie  Draft is a major crapshoot. People hyping up 18 year old kids is nuts. 

brookdon
brookdon

I was with you until I saw Bledsoe. Not gonna happen

Sandro
Sandro

@JayfromtheFix

They would never trade Bledsoe AND a first rounder for a player that isn't a perenial All-Star.

If Mills could pull that trade of yours off, he would be Exec of the year.

brookdon
brookdon

No way Woody would take a demotion lol

brookdon
brookdon

Fair trade. OKC would only do it if they are positive about Westbrook though

solar_lion
solar_lion

@Sandro Well thought out. I give you credit for considering and reasoning in terms of the other teams needs in relation to the Knicks. Hat tip, from a fan whose not all that much into the trade machine.

Brostoevsky
Brostoevsky

@sandro

Creative, but man you really have to be sure that a) Jackson has upside to be a real floor general (not saying he doesn't, just TBD) and b) jettisoning JR Smith is truly addition by subtraction to like this deal.

I can be convinced of b), but I think we might be overvaluing in this scenario.

The other issue I have is that I'm hesitant to trade Shumpert at such a depressed value.

Maybe I'm too much of a simpleton, but I'd look to deal Chandler essentially straight up for a 1st round pick, and take some contract back to make the math work (but nothing material past 2015).

brookdon
brookdon

You are a masochist.

I'm knicks-Giants-Yanks, so I'm good with my latter two lol

Brostoevsky
Brostoevsky

Yeah - reminds of the Biyongo physique, lengthwise. He needs to hit the gym, though. I want him more cut up next year to withstand the rigors of this league.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Biggie  

I'd hold off until we get a new coach. Tyler will not be able to cover guards on the perimeter like Chandler. You can just get Tyler to switch onto a quick guard and it will be ugly. Chandler is the best for our type of switching D.

ScottE
ScottE

@Biggie  Just saw Sandro up for a second then he disappeared.  He agreed with you (in his way), and so do I.  It's something we should be excited about. And I like that story better than Mr Bedlani's.  If Tyler can use that wingspan without fouling he could be huge for the Knicks.

Sandro
Sandro

@Biggie

It took you a while but you're finally in the trade Chandler bandwagon. Good to see there's hope for you after all.

Regarding Tyler, he should be our five of the future, as if he was our 2013 lottery pick. His potential is off the roof, on both ends of the floor.

Now all we need is a coach that can nuture him, Hardaway and Murry into the future.

rico
rico

@Biggie  he and stat should spend the offseason working on D.  Tyler could learn about physical training from Stat while they are at it.  If Tyler really dedicates himself sky is he limit. 

JayfromtheFix
JayfromtheFix

@Sandro @JayfromtheFix  Bledsoe has and doesn't seem to want to sign a contract with the Suns. Goran has ran the PG flawlessly on the Suns so strengthen the C spot for a Bledsoe isn't unrealistic. The Suns according to multiple reports want a veteran big, they tried getting Zach but couldn't. 


If it helps i would take the 1st rounder out of the deal. 


BTW i liked you trade proposal also, I like Turner i think he can be a really good player. I wonder if the Thunders would really give up reggie jackson?

Sandro
Sandro

@Brostoevsky

Getting rid of JR or Felton is a must, when trading Chandler. I'd rather JR because his contract is worse and Felton can still be used as a backup PG on a friendly contract.

I know that we have no idea of what's Jackson's ceiling, but he looks like the next big thing right now. We have to risk it, if we wait too long to see if he pans out or not, the price will increase and we'll have no chance. We lost Bledsoe already,we ccan't afford to keep missing on these young pearls that are limited on their current teams.

Shumpert has hit his potential. He'll be a good 3 and D and nothing more than that. I'd like to keep him, but for the deal to happen, OKC has to trade Sefolosha and they'll demand for a defender to replace him. It's necessary...

Sandro
Sandro

@Biggie

I'm assuming that Chandler is healthy, therefore passing all tests.

OKC doesn't need Hawes, a center that shoots 3's. They need a center that coordenates the defense, like Chandler. Please don't compare them. I don't think highly of Chandler but he is a former DPOY that can help a contending team a lot.

OKC has no use to Turner, as they have Durant too.

I think it makes sense for every team, but I accept that you disagree.

Sandro
Sandro

@Kiyan Carter

He'll be a restricted free agent. With the trade, the Knicks would get their Bird Rights, which means we could match any offer for him.

He won't command much money in free agency for sure. I think he's a good player to keep at around 8 mil, kinda like Jeff Green.

Sandro
Sandro

@Knicks_Fanatic @Biggie

Our type of switching D needs to go as much as Chandler though.

Tyler at 22 and 800k is the future.
Chandler at 32 and 15 mil should be past.

Chris
Chris

@rico @Biggie  Refs always dog rookies or near rookies on fouls, and it subsides after they have been in the league. His defense will get better on fouls with time. You want to talk about dumb fouls I use JR

Brostoevsky
Brostoevsky

@sandro

Agree we deal JR Smith before Felton if that's the choice. I guess whether you do this deal comes down to whether we think Jackson is better than who we could draft in an alternative deal with another team. Maybe a good bet - I just don't know.

I'm a little wary of these 'combo' guard types that hunt their shot as a primary 1. Durant plays a big role in facilitating that offense, too, and I'm not sure Jackson makes people much better in a Melo-centric system. He has lots of upside, though

Sandro
Sandro

@Biggie @Sandro

I don't know about Chandler's foot, obviously. After OKC turned him down from that MRI, he passed the tests on Dallas and won a ring there. I think that might be proving that OKC screwed up. Maybe they're ready to take a chance now?

Perkins problems is that he is too small, too slow and too old to guard anyone. Perkins was designed to guard Howard, because of weight. He is useless now.

Chandler and Ibaka together are a way better tandem than Ibaka and Perkins. Chandler won't be exposed to this switching that we have, so he would play much better than he is playing right now.

If Chandler does well playing pick and roll with Felton, imagine with Westbrook and Durant. Perkins can't roll on a P&R for his life. I doubt he can still dunk too LOL.

I truly believe OKC wouldn't mind upgrading from Perkins to Chandler, while getting a younger Thabo on Shumpert. Udrih and Fisher are veterans that know how to win a ring. They wouldn't miss Jackson, that they'll eventually lose anyways and the pick would be almost a second rounder, if they could get to the Finals.

Sandro
Sandro

@Kiyan Carter  

I'd start Tyler. Perkins is nothing more than a backup C, just as Felton is a backup PG.

Jackson - Hardaway - Turner - Melo - Tyler
Felton - Wroten - World Peace - Amare - Perkins

It's a young team that won't get us a championship, but these guys can grow together and most important of all, the team would be fun and entertaining.

I guarantee you that with that team, the pace would go high as hell. Assuming that Woodson is gone, that is.

And most importantly of all, they would get us to the playoffs.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Sandro  

Tyler has played 165 minutes and scored 80 points and you are accusing me of wanting to build Chandler a statue? Tyler is already better than Chandler according to you. Now if this were a comparison to the immortal Eddy Curry, you would be correct.

Tyler is in his third season with his third team. He has been cut three times. He has a long way to go to even be compared to Landry Fields. Maybe he will come into his own, that is yet to be determined. The way you guys talk, perhaps you have Tyler confused with Drummond or Cousins.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Biggie  

Tyler has played 165 minutes for the Knicks. He has scored 80 points, mostly in garbage time. He looks good, but to say he is more developed offensively than Chandler means nothing yet. He was let go by 3 teams already. He is averaging 5.5 fouls per 36. He might be ready for the rotation. It's just that everyone getting way out in front of Tyler.

Sandro
Sandro

@Knicks_Fanatic

You wanna build Chandler a statue?

You were attached to Fields as well and didn't want to trade him at all. Look how that turned out.

Right now, Tyler gives me everything Chandler does on defense, and gives me more than Chandler does on offense. So to me, I'd go with the 22 yr old that looks promising than with the 32 yr old that looks finished.

This is 2014, not 2011. That Chandler is long gone.

Brostoevsky
Brostoevsky

@knicks_fanatic you can just buy MSG stock and hedge the situation

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Sandro @Knicks_Fanatic@Biggie 

You also want to trade Melo for young assets and picks, along with the rest of the team, except for Tyler and Hardaway. 

Jeremy Tyler has played 165 minutes for the Knicks, mostly in garbage time and he is now  better than Chandler.

Sandro
Sandro

@Knicks_Fanatic @Sandro@Biggie

Chandler got abused last year in the playoffs and is yet to play a dominant game this season for the Knicks. He is declining at full speed, right in front of our eyes.

You are attached to what he has done in the past. And this is a business. It's not like he brought us a Championship that we owe him that much loyalty.

He's getting older, playing worse, losing health...

To me, he's better getting us a pick or a young asset than finishing his career as a Knick.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Sandro @Knicks_Fanatic@Biggie 

Tyson Chandler is shooting 61% from the field, leads the team in rebounds, is the team's defensive leader, and is a high IQ player. He has a ring, DPOY, Olympic gold, and was an All-Star starter last season. Tyler is a nice prospect and a value. Let's see how he develops before get rid of a sure thing.

Chandler has several seasons left and can be resigned at a reasonable rate after his contract ends next season. I hope he finishes his career in orange and blue.

Sandro
Sandro

@Knicks_Fanatic @Sandro@Biggie

I'm worried about the future. Basketball future, not financial future.

And Chandler is not part of Knicks basketball future. Or at least, he shouldn't be.

Sandro
Sandro

@Biggie @Sandro

Chandler won't help us this year or the next. We are a 1st or 2nd round team exit at best, with or without him.

So yeah, trading him while he still has value should be our choice. Our hopes are now in 2015 when we can reset and rebuild around Melo. And we're better developing Tyler so he can be a full time quality starter in 2015 than using Chandler to go nowhere.