Could players faith in Woodson be fading?

“They made adjustments the way they played the pick-and-roll, the way they packed the paint and stayed with our 3-point shooters. They made that adjustment. We didn’t make the adjustment back to it.’’

-Carmelo Anthony after last night’s loss to the Pacers

Harris Decker

There are two ways in which a player can voice his concerns about the coaching staff. You can be Dwight Howard and publicly ridicule and call out the members of the staff. Or you can be subliminal, using words like “didn’t make adjustments” to signify discontent.

Mike Woodson

Carmelo did the latter after Thursday night’s loss to the Pacers. After the team got destroyed, Anthony was very specific with what they did wrong. He said, in plain English that the Knicks didn’t make adjustments while the Pacers did. Making adjustments is the most important thing that the coach does during the game and Anthony felt that Woodson didn’t do the job last night.

It’s been clear all along that the players generally like Woodson and James Dolan cited this as a reason for backing him after the slow start. He told the New York Post back in November that “I have a lot of confidence in Woodson, and one thing I can say about Mike is he has the respect of all the players. They all respect him.”

The question that has to be asked after Anthony’s comments is if that respect remains intact. Woodson has done a fair job this year. He hasn’t been good but he hasn’t been horrible. He was dealt a deck with only half the cards in it, void of veteran leadership and with plenty of injury prone components. Still, this team is better than they are playing and that has to be on the coach. At least in part.

76 comments
Michael Kemp
Michael Kemp

sad thing is it not the coach whoever thinks it a coach is just clueless..you cant win with a team that plays no defense and cant score is it woody fault that the knicks player he has is either role players or bench at best come on let get real here for a minute..you get melo the only person that can score and that it Tyson u have as defense player but he doesn't score that much the rest of the roster speaks for itself..get better players and u have better results u have the same 2nd string or 3rd not going no where whoever the coach is..

lindro88
lindro88

Hopefully Carmelo is getting ready to kill coach number 2. If this BAD team wants to save themselves from the unthinkable embarrassment, missing the playoffs, and hearing for months, or possibly years about the lottery pick they "earned" playing for Denver. This team can get swept in the first round, but they HAVE to at least make the playoffs. This home stand should be it for Woodson. If they lose tonight and again to the Nets, it's time for the coaching change to take place. I wished they'd have lost to the Nets last time and the rumor he'd have been replaced was true. This team is going nowhere regardless of who coaches, but IMO they could actually miss the playoffs with Wooodson in charge.

Kenny Kaufman
Kenny Kaufman

"Woodson has done a fair job" HD , what little respect I had for you is all but gone at this point! Open your eyes man!

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

Kojo K: See my response to you way down below. Just got back to you. I have a life away from the keyboard.

rico
rico

Here's an idea. The Dolan's and the Wilpons should trade franchises.

Think about it. As a baseball owner w no salary cap Dolan could buy himself a championship. He could have a payroll like the Yankees or Dodgers.

The Wilpons are a cash-strapped family who seems to be building wisely through the draft..they can't do anything else!

Implausibilty aside, i suspect one day Cablevision will buy one of the NYBaseball teams. And the point of this post is satire and to point out that Dolan is the problem.

Hassan B
Hassan B

Can we Seriously start talking about this team in a serious matter?


We aren't part of the knicks organization, but everyone seems to just jump on each others back. What happen to commenting on an article with constructive criticism? 

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

This is the pivotal moment for the Knicks season. You can see the frustration beginning to mount. They need a win tonight in the worst way. If they lose, well...

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

I have to state this  once again. I'm tired of the worn-old BS excuse  the media has bought into that the team is suffering because it lacks "veteran leadership." I mean, c'mon. Chandler was brought in to be a leader as a guy who has won a ring, Melo, for all his bucks, isn't a leader? He's just one of the guys? STAT came here and was touted as a leader. Don't say he isn't because he's been injured; Wallace was injured, Camby was injured, and Thomas was injured. K-Mart isn't a leader. Felton, the starting PG, isn't a leader? Oh, c'mon.


The big difference between last year's roster is that Camby, Wallace, Kidd, and Thomas had high basketball IQ and IQ in general. It has been regularly stated that this team lacks basketball IQ. It has never been more apparent. This team has veteran leaders, they just aren't that smart.

bigdishing
bigdishing

OK, if they're 15 - 25 and have been playing hard for Woody, what's going to happen when they stop? Oh boy, I wouldn't let small children watch the game tonight. 

rkj473
rkj473

I don't like to say injuries are a good thing but it seems they have been a reoccurring thing all season.


Maybe something or someone is try to say "HEY WOODSON TIME TO SWITCH THINGS UP" your lineups are not working, your match ups are not working, it's time to do something different. 


Every time the Knicks seem to be getting to full strength another injury pops up. You could looks at this multiple ways:


1. Woodson actually plays his bench and gets some of the young guys time on the court.


2. Woodson should stick with his rotations that are actually helping the Knicks. (for example the Murr- Shump or even Murry- Shump- THjr backcourt we say on the Texas trip OR playing Melo- Bargs or Melo- Chandler in the front cout)


3. Someone really doesn't want the Knicks at full strength, Idk whether that is a good thing or not but that seem like too many bodies for such few spots.


4. Woodson becomes even more exposed as a coach for not making adjustments or lineup changes necessary for the team to succeed.


I'm sure there are many more reason to think off...

C0P0
C0P0

Melo's comment was the hammer pulling back to drive the final nail in Woodson's coffin. 

At least it should be but Dolan isn't going to do anything.

rkj473
rkj473

Again, I think this always boils down to BALL Movement.  When the ball is moving players like Shump etc feel involved in the game and the game plan. If the ball sticks Shump stand in a corner, so does Bargs etc and no one feels involved in the game. 


To then expect them to go all out for the team and play defense (even though some of them are terrible at it) is expecting alot out of them. Look at the way the Knicks played at the beginning of 2014, the ball was moving, people were getting their shots in rhythm.


Felton comes back, has 14 assists against the Heat, since then over the last 3 games he has had that amount combined. That's pathetic for a starting pg. Not to mention, he takes as many shots during the game as anyone else (not name Melo). Your starting point guard is supposed to help setup other team mates before looking for your shot (of course you take the shot if given the opportunity). Last night Felton player 29minutes and had 5 assist, Beno played 16 minutes and had 4 assists.


Truth is Woodson is very flawed as a "coach." He doesn't put players in a position to succeed, nor does he run plays for anyone else (not named Melo at the start of games). He expects his players who sparingly play defense to play defense all the time. That's alot for a "coach" to ask of his players when they don't even play fundamental defensive techniques.


I for one thinks this team has enough talent to compete, but there are too many times so far this year where they take games off and even during games where they don't seem to know what there are doing out there. That is an indictment on the coach. If your players are not playing well (other than Melo) you replace them with someone else who will.





chudogz
chudogz

@mk kemp. Oh, so last year we had superstars? LMAO... How bout when Melo got the rebound a few weeks ago with 6 seconds left, and "coach" didn't call a time out to draw up a play, and get the ball at half court, instead letting Melo dribble up court, so by the time he reached half court we had 3 seconds left, and Melo had to hoist up a prayer? That's on the coach, and no one else... Peace

lindro88
lindro88

If he means a fair job since taking over as HC , I can live with that. As for this year, he's done a terrible job. Something he mentions after every loss

Kenny Kaufman
Kenny Kaufman

MELO is going nowhere! But Woody sure as hell is on borrowed time!

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Jerry Gee 

My first favorite Knick was Jim "Bad News" Barnes drafted back in 1964. Over the last 50 years, I've learned to enjoy my Knicks no matter what. I've seen Championships and terrible teams. No point in getting upset over matters beyond your control.  

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@ricoWell it would be good for MSG the network so yeah I could see Cablevision at least offering to buy the Mets. Not sure if MLB would approve that sale though.

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Jerry Gee No, a boycott won't work. He'll simply try to make moves to appease the fans. Fire coaches to appease fans whatever. Most important thing to success is stability and bending to the whims of fans may force him into changes that are shortsighted and not necessarily solve any problems.


But it sounds good on a message board.  

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Jerry Gee I do believe that we'll be looking for a new coach this offseason but question is who is it going to be?

C0P0
C0P0

@bigdishing If they start another losing streak at home, The Garden is going to become absolute hell for The Knicks. 

Chris
Chris

@Kojo Krush I've been coaching a long time and DAW is one of the worst coaches I've ever seen. He has absolutely no business coaching NBA basketball.

C0P0
C0P0

@rkj473 Ball movement and better defense. Do that and so many games are won.

Unfortunately, Felton is consistently inconsistent and defense is a rare commodity for 4qtrs.

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

@Kojo Krush Sorry, assembling some furniture took me away. No, what I'm saying is the "no veteran leadership" meme being spread around is BS. The problem is on the court and it is two-fold; a lack of B-Ball IQ (you have to admit they do some dumb ish out there on both the players and the coaching's behalf and they lack a "Killer Instinct." When they have a team down, instead of putting them away, they get complacent with the lead and start taking stupid jump shots from the arc even when the middle is there to be had.


The "no Leadership BS should be offensive to the players I mentioned and they shouldn't be buying into it. It becomes a crutch. Remember, Ewing was a non-vocal, n on-rah rah leader. He led with his effort and determination on the court.

rkj473
rkj473

@bigdishing @rkj473 Not the point. Knicks players have been injured all season. The problem is the "coach" is afraid to play his younger guys so he over compensate for that by playing other guys more minutes than they should be playing.


I mean, forbid anything that possibly good that can happen for playing the younger guys some more. I mean its not like the Knicks need a boost of energy or something.

C0P0
C0P0

@OLD_KNICK @C0P0 Probably so. Then again Melo may take the money and hope it changes next season. It's all on Melo either way.

rkj473
rkj473

@C0P0 True, all that considering the Woodson was brought in as a defensive "coach" yet as presently constructed the Knikcs play defense sparingly.


If Woodson is known for one thing (defense) but the team doesn't even play it consistently what does that say about him or his team?

chudogz
chudogz

@ Jerry gee. He will never, he is the problem. Always wanting tk be involved and offer draft picks in trades. Thinks he's Jerry Jones from the CowGirls

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Kojo Krush@thatsagoodpoint@Jerry Gee You're going to keep getting what you've been getting. Which is a big name coach who may or may not have had legit success. You're going to have a 'superstar' name talent. And you're going to have a GM that is constantly looking over his shoulder in regards to how to put the rest of the pieces together. And you're going to get a total disregard for the draft in the process of all that. If you're not on board for that, go root for someone else. It is what it's always been.

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Jerry Gee@thatsagoodpoint In a perfect world he would but he doesn't care. He'll trust his bball people and then micromanage over them, fire them if they're not working out then hire a new bball braintrust whom he trusts, and the cycle will continue. Your life will be a lot easier once you accept that you have no power whatsoever over Dolan. And a fan uprising is not happening.

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Jerry Gee@thatsagoodpoint It's a domino effect. Fans want moves to be made but sometimes it's the moves you don't make that prove to be the right ones. Not saying Woodson doesn't deserve to be fired but forcing a bad move onto him can be worse than just sticking with what you have.

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

@Jerry Gee@Kojo Krush Understand this; we are Knicks fans on one of a dozen or more blogsites. The fact that we are here means we aren't at games spending money. Why? Because most of us can't afford to go regularly.  If those of us who do attend a few games stop attending, those tickets will just be sold by a travel agent as part of a junket package for tourist from Holland.


The only boycott that will matter to Dolan is if the people who spend $10,000 per game on a skybox stop spending. We, here at TKB, mean nothing to Dolan. 

rico
rico

Thing is that MSG makes crazy money, do no matter how mediocre the knicks may be, daddy dolan looks at jimmies' bottom line and nothing changes.

Phil Jackson is NOT coming to MSG. Dolan has had many opportunities to hire, even interview Jax but he never did. I doubt Phil will coach again, and certainly never be a sock puppet for jimmie and the straight shots.

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Jerry Gee@thatsagoodpoint Well that's a really simple explanation for why we are where we are. Bottom line is Dolan is not a good manager except for where it concerns getting people into MSG, not just the Knicks, but MSG. He's more concerned with the success of the venue. Yes he would like to see a winning product but his billions aren't drying up, he's not going to sell the team ever. So what he does is delegates to people. But he's got an ego so he micromanages ever detail. And micromanaging the Knicks is going to be a lot more fun than micromanaging say, the MSG waste disposal unit. So that's where he puts his energy all the while 'trusting' his coaches and GMs to do a good job. Some times it works out, more often than not, it doesn't. 


We all talk about wanting to get Phil Jackson here but that won't happen so long as Dolan is surrounded by people who tell him they don't need him. And why the hell would they as Dolan hiring Jackson would likely spell the end for someone like Alan Houston or Steve Mills.


So yeah I've pretty much given up on ever getting Phil Jackson.  

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Jerry Gee Believe me, I agree 1,000% with you, but this is the Knicks we're talking about. And  that's the way we do things.

thatsagoodpoint
thatsagoodpoint

@Jerry Gee@thatsagoodpoint Well that's assuming that you could get a viable coach to come in. Most will want their input on roster construction and a training camp. Rest assured though that we will fire Woodson after the season and after giving Melo the full max we will let him pick his coach.

C0P0
C0P0

@Nick White @C0P0 @bigdishing Time for some changes. Been that since Summer League. LOL

Nick White
Nick White

@C0P0 @bigdishing in the long run losing this homestand will 100% lead to changes; Woodsen will get fired; people will be gone; just read NYK are very open to trading Tyson now trying to force either ray or JR along with him.

bigdishing
bigdishing

@rkj473 @bigdishing I agree on that. Last night's game was over in the third quarter, yet Stat is out there trying to get some numbers. With a game tonight, why not clear the bench? But every coach does this. 

C0P0
C0P0

@OLD_KNICK  130M or a chance to get a bit less and a real title shot elsewhere.

The choice may not be that hard in the end for a multimillionaire cresting his prime years to decide.


Get ready for "The Decision II"