Final Score: Celtics 90, Knicks 86

The Knicks (6-16) came back from a 17-point deficit in the second quarter to take a brief 4th quarter lead, but they ultimately fell to the Celtics (11-14) 90-86.

The Least You Should Know:

Carmelo Anthony scored 26 points off 9-of-24 shooting.

Andrea Bargnani scored 22 points off 9-of-22 shooting.

Pablo Prigioni and Iman Shumpert were a combined 2-of-14 from the field for only 8 points.

Amar’e Stoudemire had another strong performance, scoring 18 points in 30 minutes off the bench.

JR Smith only took one field goal attempt. He scored 2 points.

For the Celtics, Jared Sullinger scored 19 points. Courtney Lee had 18 off the bench. And Jeff Green scored the clutch layup and the foul near the end of the fourth quarter to put the game away.

Amit Badlani

13 points in the 4th quarter is not going to cut it. No, I’m not talking about Carmelo Anthony scoring. I’m talking about the Knicks collectively scoring 13 points in the 4th quarter. THIRTEEN! ON FRIDAY THE 13TH! ON A NIGHT THAT THERE WAS A 13-GAME NBA SCHEDULE!

So I’m giving y’all fair warning to keep away from the Knicks and their bad juju. Kenyon Martin already suffered the wrath of 13. He strained his abdominal muscle in the fourth quarter.

Do you want to put blame on one player for this loss? Then go ahead and put it on JR Smith. He came into the season with the expectation of being the Knicks’ secondary scorer. Tonight, he didn’t take a field goal attempt until the 4th quarter.

Do you want to put the blame on Mike Woodson instead? You can do that too. The Knicks outscored the Celtics 25-14 in the 3rd quarter by sharing the ball. Six different Knicks scored off 8 assists.

In the 4th quarter, the ball stopped moving. The Knicks only had 2 assists. Carmelo Anthony forced up eight shots, most of which came in isolation sets, and could only hit one.

Bright spot was Amar’e. After proving he could play in a back-to-back on Wednesday, he played for 30 minutes tonight with the injury to Kenyon Martin. Hopefully he can keep contributing like this without the injury bug biting again.

307 comments
zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

Great article from posting and toasting...


"The first half in Boston had an opposite arc: The Knicks stayed with the Celtics early because Carmelo Anthony was truly cookin' soup from the field, canning enough jumpers off the catch and duping Jeff Green (guarding him often for some reason, even when Brandon Bass was on the floor) enough to keep pace with all the open buckets and rebounds the Celtics got at the other end. When he took his break to begin the second quarter, the Knicks promptly fell behind double digits. When he returned, they came back.


I just rewatched the second half, because I care not for my mental well-being. My intent was to type out some plays to compare how the Knicks made so much good out of the pick-and-roll in their third-quarter run then isolated themselves to death in the fourth quarter, but that's not what happened. Well, the first part is true. Pablo Prigioni used Kenyon Martin and Andrea Bargnani picks to create poppin' jumpers for Bargnani, an open decoy three for Iman Shumpert, and free throws for Amar'e Stoudemire. Melo and Amar'e ran a nice pick-and-roll, too. Also the Celtics missed a ton of jumpers.

The collapse was starkly different in that the Celtics made open threes, but subtly, perniciously different on offense. The Knicks didn't just dump the ball into Melo isolation every time down. He forced it a few times, but they didn't stop calling sets. They just looked tight and reluctant running them. The screens were weaker, the use of them more tentative. Guys ate the open shots created out of sets, or just bricked them. When the Knicks did isolate Melo, they got him the ball too late in the clock, often because the previous action was busted or neglected.

Maybe that kind of thing is why I find myself much happier watching the Knicks when they're down big. They play so loosely and competently when they're coming back, or when the game isn't yet on the line. The moment the Knicks face a dwindling clock and the baskets affect the score in exponents, not increments, they shrivel. We've seen Mike Woodson stop calling plays. We've seen the Knicks stop running the plays right. The failure comes in all flavors, but these Knicks are broken and sad and stupid from top to bottom and I hate watching them. alleyhoop_20 (quoted in the headline) summed it up better than I ever could.


Just a few notes:

- Pablo Prigioni took his first free throws of the whole season early in the first quarter. J.R. Smith-- who dealt some truly lovely set-ups off the dribble-- refused to shoot the ball until he rimmed out an open three in the fourth quarter. So he went like 23-ish minutes of court time without shooting. I don't need to do any research or think for even a moment to tell you that's never happened since he's been a Knick. "


POSTING and TOASTING 

rgm891
rgm891

It's way to quiet on the Knicks front!!!!!!!!!!

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

Without Chandler and KMart...we have no interior defense.  Woody should have played Aldrich last night to bang with Sullinger instead of Barg.  Bench Amare last night and we would have him ready to play today.  Aldrich would have been more effective against Sullinger, than against a guy like Horford.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

Melo, due $130 million, for Griffin, other pieces, and a pick?


Clippers aren't going to do that trade.

IAMINETROBE
IAMINETROBE

i hate the fact that this team went away from pick and roll it used to be the bread and butter 

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

Smart and good defensive teams will not allow Prig to run PnR or PnPop.  All they have to do his stay with guy trying to set the pick and leave Prig open to shoot.  Prig is always looking to pass and often refuse to take wide open shots.  That would stop that PnR real quick..


Good PG are triple threat...they can shoot, drive or pass.  Prig is pretty much pass only...that will not allow an offense to run efficiently against a good defense team...period.  That will lead to Melo or JR in iso trying to create shots.


We need a real PG, like all the good BNA teams have!!  Take Parker off the Spurs and see how effective Danny Green and all those guys that cannot create their own shots would be.  Go see how much Durant struggle without Westbrook creating all those easy shots for him.  Take Rubio of Minny and see how hard it would be for Love to score.

barnaby87
barnaby87

For the record, i'm not arguing Griffin is better than Melo by any means, but he's still a 20/10 guy and would you rather have him or risk losing Melo for nothing?  In an ideal world, if we were going to trade Melo, we'd get a guy like K-Love, but I doubt Minny would ever consider something like that knowing that Melo would never sign an extension in Minny.

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

In the waning moments of the game, it looked like Melo was gassed. However, guys just kept giving him the ball over and over without any second thought as to whether that was the right basketball decision. 


Bargnani missed Amar'e a few times because the only thing on his mind was give the ball to Melo. He didn't want it. 


We should have had a two man game going with Melo and Amar'e. I wouldn't have been mad if we fed Amar'e down low because he is the ONLY person that goes to the basket with any consistency...maybe he makes it, maybe he gets fouled and we get an easy point or two. We didn't go to him once. Woody's game plan is unintelligent. Vogel told us that after the playoffs last year. Melo is getting more pissed by the game.


I have no idea what we are doing on either end of the court. People can cite injuries as an excuse all they want. (Yes, we would be a little better with Tyson because he covers up a lot of the defensive shortcomings of the players and yes, the coach). However, the good teams have a set way they play regardless of who is playing. If Wade is sitting, the heat play the same brand of basketball...the spurs can sit their big three and guess what, they still play the same brand of basketball. That doesn't mean they necessarily win those games but the style, the brand does not change. 


This team has NO IDENTITY. Twenty-one games into the season and the coach has no idea who we are as a basketball team...how can we win games?? The only guys that know their role are Melo, Tyson, Kenyon (sometimes he shoots 17 ft jumpers so I'm not so sure), and Prigioni (but that is because he knows his limitations so he only does what he knows he can do). JR doesn't even know his role anymore. 1 shot? You cannot play that many minutes and take one shot. You are hurting the team!! 


Sorry so long. I am pissed off because these dudes look like they were forced to play basketball. And our coach is a f#cking idiot. The End lol. 

barnaby87
barnaby87

As far as I'm concerned, if you could swing Melo and Shump for Griffin, Dudley, Hollins, and a 1st in 2014, you pull the trigger.  Griffin gives us a young PF to build around, Dudley and Hollins give us depth at the 3 and 5, and the first in the stacked draft class would be a solid pick.  In a pipe dream scenario, we would still swing Felton, MWP, and a 1st for Lowry.  Then fire Woodson and lure Thibodeau here.   Trade Amare for Humphires and G. Wallace.  Then we would have enough cap to sign Deng.  Chandler and Bargani come off the books, we lure Rondo here, sign a young-ish center and have a front four of Rondo, THJ, Deng, and Griffin.   Again, pure pipe dream, but why not?  Either way, if Melo wants to go to the clips and we can bring Griffin back, we should.

barnaby87
barnaby87

@Knicks_Fanatic Exactly.  People below were arguing with me, but i'd do Melo and Shump for Griffin, Hollins, Dudley and a pick

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@Knicks_Fanatic Throw in Tyson for DeAndre and as they say "Chris paul drives them to the airport." He doesn't like Griffin or Jordan. Those guys don't want to work hard.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@IAMINETROBE Chandler is injured and Felton has missed a lot of games.  Those are our 2 main PnR players.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@OLD_KNICK I am not a fan of the Dolan.  However, knowing how he rolls...somebody will be fired or traded soon!!

chrisb
chrisb

@barnaby87 to answer your question, yes. I don`t think Melo is going away. I think he is going to stay and wait for round 2

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@SheSaidSpikeWho All you have to is see that when KMart went down, we were winning the game.  Amare and Barg cannot be our 2 bigs at the most crucial point in the game.


We lost to Spurs, Boston (42 point loss), Clev...all games without KMart or Chandler.  There is no interior defense without those 2 guys on the floor.


There is a reason why Boston out scored us by 16, when Amare was on the floor.

saintknick
saintknick

@barnaby87 Griffin is getting paid 17-21 mil each year for the next 5 seasons. You feel he's the guy you want to start a build around?


edit: keep in mind he's technically regressed since his rookie season, and he's had the advantage of playing with Chris Paul and a really good Center, with deadly shooters around him. I'd much rather hold out and start a rebuild around a two-way player, or not pay anyone 20 million for a while.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@barnaby87 Griffin is not a guy that can carry a team without a PG.  He cannot shoot...he is great at finishing the PnR and for highlights.  Griffin is over-rated and would only be good for Dolan's pocket.

rgm891
rgm891

@barnaby87 Do u really want Thibs here? He runs all his players to the ground!!!!

knickfan2
knickfan2

If Griffin or DeAndre Jordan don't want to work hard, why should our f.o. trade to bring them here?

IAMINETROBE
IAMINETROBE

@zdiddy4nyk well i meant the way we ran it with amare and felton when they got here that was unstoppable

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@zdiddy4nyk Oh, I know. When Kenyon went down, I said "great, our only other semblance of defense is gone." 

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@saintknick@barnaby87 Melo>>>>>>>Griffin.


It is easy for a good defender to take Griffin out of his game.  Just give him the open shot and don't let him roll to the basket.

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@zdiddy4nyk @barnaby87 I agree on Griffin. He won't carry this team anywhere without a decent pg. Since that is the case, you might as well get a PG lol. Griffin can't shoot, can hardly be in the game during the clutch, he has knee issues, he's soft...what else? 


Yup, he would make Dolan money because he can jump really high.

saintknick
saintknick

@rgm891 Coaches like Thibs change man. He's a young coach who now has experienced breaking down players. He'll be much more receptive to maintaining his guys in the future, mark my word. He's the kind of coach who gets better.


Didn't Doc and Phil do the same thing in their coaching careers, but learn the lesson?

Tikki
Tikki

@Knicks_Fanatic Oh, I was just referring to Jordan-Tyson.  Wasn't thinking about a monster deal like that.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Tikki@Knicks_Fanatic 

The Clippers are at $74.8 million in salary right now. They can't take back anymore than 800K in a deal. With a Melo-Chandler ($35.5 million )swap, they would have to send back at least, $34.7 million. So they would have to send Blake, Jordan, and about $7.5 million in other contracts.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

Once a team either uses the non-taxpayer mid-level exception OR receives a player in a sign-and-trade deal, the apron becomes their hard cap. The apron is defined as $4M over the tax line (for this season, $75.6M).

The Clippers are capped at the apron.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Tikki@Knicks_Fanatic@SheSaidSpikeWho 

I think the Clippers are hard capped at the apron. The used their MLE to sign players. They wouldn't be able to trade unless they sent out more than a few million. The total salaries would need to pretty much match.It is complicated by the new CBA.



Tikki
Tikki

@Knicks_Fanatic I think @SheSaidSpikeWho is just referring to those two as the centerpiece of the swap; their salaries are close enough - Clips would just need to send another ~$2M-$4M in salary (Collison, Dudley, etc.) Not hard. (Not saying this deal is desirable by the Knicks or anything, but easily made feasible)

chrisb
chrisb

@knickfan2 Exactly. Neither can create their own shot, defense is not in their vocab. You want to really kill this franchise, make that trade

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@NYKnickerBocker Amare doesn't set great picks anymore.  Chandler set very good picks.  Plus, with Amre's knee...maybe him setting picks is not good in the long run.

solar_lion
solar_lion

@Sandro Guedes@zdiddy4nyk@barnaby87 Lebron's a point forward. The lesson for me is that some one or two people have to direct the flow. Whether it comes from the traditional pointguard or a poinforward, doesn't matter. Some offense at times had a good passer from the post to facilitate the offense along with the PG. 

rgm891
rgm891

@saintknick @rgm891 I hope your right man. Thibs is a great coach for sure. I just hope he learns his lesson!