Knicks lose their 7th straight in demoralizing fashion

Harris Decker

Losing to teams like the Chicago Bulls, Indiana Pacers and Miami Heat is one thing. But the Detroit Pistons are a sloppy team without a firm grasp on what their team identity is. Sound familiar? The same can be said about the New York Knicks. Still, losing to teams like the Pistons hurts more than up against the true class of the Eastern Conference. Especially when you blow a big lead.

Amare Stoudemire

The Knicks came out Monday night with an intensity that we’ve seen flashes of during the entire season. Carmelo Anthony was draining his shots, Amar’e Stoudemire was getting great pushes in the paint and Tyson Chandler was on his way to a big rebounding night. In the first quarter, the Pistons turned the ball over six times. That’s double the amount of turnovers that the Bulls had during the entire game on Sunday. Things were looking good for the Knicks in the first half, as they led by five at the break.

In the third quarter, things really went down hill. The Pistons shot 58 percent from the field, led by Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe, who combined for 17 in the frame. Down at the other end of the court, the Knicks struggled mightily. The ball movement, which had shown up in the first half, had disappeared. Only three Knicks scored in the third quarter (Stoudemire, Anthony and a lone Raymond Felton three-pointer).

By the second half of the fourth quarter, the game was well out of hand for the Knicks. They trailed by 13 with 3:42 to go and that’s all she wrote.

J.R. Smith took the opportunity to finally hit a few shots. After opening the game 0-for-his-first-10, he scored an amazing 16 points in just under nine minutes, but by that point the game was over. Smith’s 5 for 17 might not look that bad but he literally couldn’t make a shot when the Knicks needed him most. Tim Hardaway Jr., Felton and Chandler also had horrendous nights shooting the ball.

The body language was also a huge issue down the stretch. Anthony, Smith and Chandler were all visibly upset and when that happens, the team plays even sloppier. They were careless with the ball and went into extreme isolation mode in the third. When the fourth quarter started, it was Pablo Prigoni, Hardaway Jr., Iman Shumpert, Jeremy Tyler and Chandler. When the ball was being dribbled up, Walt Clyde Frazier asked a pointed question: Where would the offense come from?

The answer came a few minutes later when Anthony checked back in. In the two and a half minutes he was on the bench in the fourth, the Knicks didn’t score a single point.

Another tough loss and another uninspired performance from the Knicks.





178 comments
Mike T.
Mike T.

Wow, can't believe how much better the podcast was with that guy Mike on it.

Lee Forman
Lee Forman

I like how the franchise's first 100-point season in 30 years is deemed a "failure"... And the same people complaining about pinching with a big lead are the same people complaining when they play on their heels with a big lead... They're not great coaches, but at some point you have to blame the players. It's their job to score on the PP, not Doug Weight's.

Jim Miller
Jim Miller

I completely disagree. The team is directed by the coach's. The players stick to whatever plan the coach's lay out. This team fell apart, could't keep a lead, losing many a game late. The power play was a disaster. If it were my team, which it is in my heart, I'd do a complete overhaul, before the season opener.

erika
erika

Dude...it's never just the coaches...but keeping your 2nd leading scorer out of the PP...wait----out of the GAME...is just a head scratching, dumbass, coaching move...period...end!!

rmbbanned2
rmbbanned2

@erika he had 5 goals and 4 assists in his last 23 games- or what is also known as the last 2 months of the season.. Some of those games were with JT, and he had power play time every game..


23 games is almost 1/3 the season...


It wasn't working. 


He was hurt, gassed or as people like to write "not in good physical condition"(which is silly but often written)..


Some would say Cappy made a Line change with good reason- since Lee was basically not producing offense. If he wasn't producing offense- he didn't do much more. Doesn't play strong defense, doesn't hit.


His one dimension- wasn't working..

erika
erika

@rmbbanned2 @erika You are certainly  entitled  to your opinion, but I guess you just disagree with 99% of all the knowledgeable hockey writers and such...

Logan Monstuart
Logan Monstuart

I disagree. You have a man advantage. What are the ways to take advantage of the other team having one fewer player than you? That calls for a system, not payers doing their thing. This isn't pond hockey, it's not an all-star game. There's that infield play in baseball, with a man on base, there's no defense for. That's how a pp should work. Done right, you at the very least should have several scoring chances, only luck or a hot goaltender should stop you. Isles vey rarely even had that.

Mark Terrin
Mark Terrin

I just came back from my 6 mile walk/run at Jones Beach.For nostalgia reasons I stopped off for a non alcoholic beverage at the  Marriott Hotel next to the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum,Man the place looks like the 3 Mile Island Nuclear plant before the Nuclear meltdown.Pitch Black with no signage of any upcoming events.Wow is it sobering !! I am going to get back on my soapbox.Pick either John Stevens,Mike Kitchen,Kevin Dineen or Guy Boucher as HC and send that ECHL coach Jack the Hack packing.

Thomas Boyle
Thomas Boyle

I don't see them winning a round with this staff in place some of the decisions that are made are just a joke. To pinch with a big lead is pathetic. Blowing leads pathetic pp. This staff is a complete and utter joke bunch of morons and losers that must be fired immediately. This team rewards failure

dkdk
dkdk

The Knicks suck

Lee Forman
Lee Forman

I'm as big a Lee fan as they come and he was awful in the playoffs. He deserved to be benched. Lee doesn't hold it against the coaches and the players like the current staff. Unfortunately for you I care more about what the players think.

Thomas Boyle
Thomas Boyle

Just heard the podcast they will not win a round with these idiots in charge, CAPUANO to bench Lee for Colin McDonald is stupidity at its finest. And to go 0-14 and not bring in Pulock is another stupid move. This summer is all about firing these guys and bring in coaches that have a clue about hockey.

rmbbanned2
rmbbanned2

Then your gonna have a rough hockey summer- because there is no indication Cappy is getting canned. 

but it is the middle of July, so you have time to adjust..

erika
erika

Had a huge problem when it happened, and I am glad to hear that professional hockey writers feel the same....Just a horrible move that automatically put us behind the 8 ball!....I am 99.9% sure no one is getting fired ..so...I at least hope the player and  coaching staff learned something about what it takes to be in the playoffs...and WIN!

Jim Miller
Jim Miller

I have to agree. from where I'm sitting, it looks like they will be given a chance. I just hope they pull the trigger when the time's right.

4EverMets
4EverMets

@Jim Miller  There will be no changes til Wang becomes the minority owner!! Don't get what all the fuss is about. If Snow and Crappy weren't fired after the many years of losing, they were not going to be fired after they made the playoffs with 100 points.

rmbbanned2
rmbbanned2

@4EverMets Thats correct. AND if they come up with another 100 point season, and heaven forbid win a playoff round- then what?


jethrono9
jethrono9

@rmbbanned2 @4EverMets  

Exactly, however on the other side of that proverbial coin, if in fact they do garner another 100 point season, yet lose again in the first round, that should be the end of these 3 guys, namely Cappy, Weight, and Cronin without any questions.

rmbbanned2
rmbbanned2

@jethrono9 Awful - the playoff success standard..



8 years ago- a coach wins the Cup

7 years ago- he loses in the Finals.

The next 4 years, he loses in the Semi's or the quarter finals.

The last 2 years, he loses in the first round..


Year after year after year of diminishing returns, but this well run Franchise kept this coach who brought diminishing return, after diminishing return.


So- when would you have fired Babcock?


That is why your playoff standard is Awful..

Sorry- quality of the roster doesn't count, because you have some notion that you need to win in the playoffs to be a good coach.


Trotz is rather sad too- as his playoff record is terrible.. If your gonna hold Cappy accountable for not beating the Pens( who had a roster insanely better)- secure that roster drivel with Trotz. IF your gonna hold CAppy accountable for  not beating the Caps with 1/2 the blue line out for a few games, don't mention rosters..


Results right? you win or get fired..

Your standard is awful..


jethrono9
jethrono9

@rmbbanned2 @jethrono9

Going back on your own standards, once again i see, you yourself have posted numerous times in here that cappy deserves at times to be fired and you wouldn't have any problem with it, but as usual you are now backing him, can you make up your mind and STICK to it? Oh yeah, your reasoning is worse then awful, and the majority in here and elsewhere do not agree with you.

nyicdneh
nyicdneh

Discussing line combinations is entertaining and fun HOWEVER we all know this is an exercise in futility given injuries, slumps etc make the first 3 lines dynamic and rarely set in stone for any substantial length of time. The Stanley Cup is won during the months of June thru September. The time put in during the off season in terms of conditioning and traunung is what makes the difference come the dog days of February and the killer month of March. Isles have 11 home and 18 away games during that stretch. Then there's the 2 month stretch that follows to completely win the whole thing. Last year this team flat out ran out of gas and it showed terribly towards the end.

The Stanley Cup Playoffs requires skill to win but most importantly is a marathon of attrition. Chicago can thank their lucky stars they never lost Duncan Keith. He logged insane minutes to compensate for a depleted and pedestrian defensive core. Seabrook alone wouldn't have been able to carry that team as far as they did go. We need the same to occur with either the Hammer or Boychuk. They need to be our version of DK and stay healthy!

clark_9
clark_9

@nyicdneh great points. hopefully our ability to roll 4 lines and 6 D will help keep guys healthy, totally agree re off season training, you get out of something what you put into it.

Don22
Don22

@clark_9 @nyicdneh Good points both.  The Isles are lucky they can roll 4 lines when healthy.  That's what makes them a dangerous offensive team.  Hopefully the D can come together a bit this year.  Looking forward to another step in the right direction.

elephant
elephant

Really hope Lee can stick with JT this coming season.

willymayshays
willymayshays

@elephant



I like the idea but I think the kid line actually worked pretty well.  With Lee on the 1st line who is the RW?  Unless Lee and KO improve defensively (JT too) that would be a very 1 dimensional line.  Like I've said before, JB is NOT a 1st line player, but I put a lot of stock in chemistry and balance.  What ever works, you know.  If putting JB on the 1st line with the kid line as 2nd line creates two plus lines so be it.  JT has a neg +/- player his whole career till JB was on his line.  Just saying..

willymayshays
willymayshays

@clark_9 @elephant


Not bad.  I like those lines.  BUT, more than anything I want Strome to be our 2nd line center.  It really paves the way for the future, IMO.  But, like I said below, what ever works, I want to see that.

rmbbanned2
rmbbanned2

@willymayshays Agree- JB isn't a top line player. He just makes the top line better due to his hockey sorcery..


Over 82 games, Bailey is pretty certain to score 20 goal and have  almost 60 points. Anybody who plays with JT over 82 games gets those numbers..


JB just gets them without slowing down the attack, while improving the defense of the top line.


Have to see where Anders Lee has improved this off season. JT- a man blessed with more talent, seems to make huge improvements in ONE aspect of his game each off season. Hopefully Lee makes a huge improvement in one aspect of his game(skating please)..


I also agree with Strome at the second line center spot. He makes everybody on his line better. 


I also desire Nelson to sit in the third line spot, perhaps with Kuli and Grabo on the wings. Nelson and Kuli are big bodies, while Grabo is strong with the puck.. Those guys are uber experienced NHL players- and Brock can be well above league average as a third line center.. 


Strong down the middle is the way to build your forwards. Strong centers make their wingers better. Wingers don't make centers better..


I write this because if the Isles aren't gonna extend Frans- given his age I would not UNLESS he comes cheap- trade him now while his ability and low cap cost are a great value..

clark_9
clark_9

@willymayshays @clark_9 @elephant completely agree with you...was just thinking about our power play troubles last year...i think if JT and strome played regularly on a line together they'd be even more effective on the PP unit. Agree Strome makes everyone better as a center...great vision/passing. LT 3-4 yrs i could see Barzal as our number 2 center. Man, the next several years are going to be fun!

Don22
Don22

@rmbbanned2 @willymayshays RM - I think you and I both have had similar thoughts on Lee.  He is a goal scorer.  But to be able to continue to help the team he needs to be able to do more than just score goals - mainly because scoring goes into slumps.  If he disappears when he isn't scoring goals then it hurts the team.  To his credit, I felt he was becoming more involved in the play towards the end of the season - ie: setting up some more goals when he isn't able to score them.

rmbbanned2
rmbbanned2

@Don22 Yep. Needs to round out his game, and most of that comes from his skating. Plus, he was a rookie with all the growing pains expected of a rookie..


I have been very critical of his skating- not his effort- his skating. He doesn't move at a pace that works in the NHL. He seems to be a great athlete, so hopefully he comes into camp with better wheels..


To be fair- the man is a menace within 15' of the goal. He boxes out well and it seems like nobody can move his big frame.. HIs eye hand efforts in redirecting shots is also outstanding. 


I suspect Lee is working hard to improve his game, and that in his exit meetings he was given a "to do " list from the coaching staff.

Lets see what he brings to camp.. 


The better he does, the better the team progresses.. I do not think scoring will be a problem  unless all the under 25 year old players fall off a cliff..

clark_9
clark_9

@elephant totally agree...hoping for lee, JT, strome...would like to see JB/FN/KO reunited

erika
erika

@Don22 @rmbbanned2 @willymayshays Don, ..everyone on the team could use improvement. I agree Lee should take some speed skating lessons..but for that matter, so should JT! No one converts JT's passes better than Lee. He buzzes the net and is a big body to move. If anything, he should do more of what he does best because it is severely underrated..those dirty areas! To be fair..this was his first FULL year, and he was 2nd in scoring!....I would say he already improved, and will continue to do so!...Rock on!

rmbbanned2
rmbbanned2

@erika

"Everybody needs lessons"?

Lee is a terrible skater, and needs to really improve to reach NHL average.. 


Lee doesn't skate fast enough to buzz anything.. He gets to the front of the goal, establishes position, and awaits the puck.

He doesn't do much more- except get punched in the face about every 35 games by Wilson of the Caps..


HE is good at what he does- but what he does is very limited.. It is fun reading how you sugar coat your favorites, and hammer the guys who are not your favorites..

erika
erika

@rmbbanned2 @erika You are too funny....and pointless when numbers are not involved! First...I root for ALL the Islanders...that includes Capuano, Garth, Bailey, Grabner, etc, ...if anything is obvious rm, is that you have an issue with Lee...oh, but never, ever do you sugar coat  the owner, management or coaching...because...ehem...they always do the right  thing!

erika
erika

@rmbbanned2 Also, you are loosing your savvy when it come to quoting people.....perhaps you need a lesson, hahahaha!

puckdad99
puckdad99

Here we go again with 16 month old Knicks posts. 

Is there anyone at IPB/SNY who knows ANYTHING at all about software ?????

jethrono9
jethrono9

@puckdad99

Doesn't look like it, the problem has been brought up and pointed out to them for long enough, either they are incompetent or just don't give a fig. Not a good way to run a blog.

Mark Terrin
Mark Terrin

@puckdad99 Some of these old Knick Posts are very entertaining.They are like watching a movie in Black and White.Perhaps the infamous WFAN Caller Jerome from Manhattan that diehard NYK fan is one of the posters.

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

Said it then, and I'll say it now:


Bottom line, it was stupidity at the time to put all the serious money in the 3/4/5 spots when the NBA was obviously a PG's league, and it is still stupidity to have most of the salary cap tied up in those positions now.  

cole3244
cole3244

since dolan has owned the team the sop has been to give away draft picks to acquire nba ready players or stars, how has that worked out for the champ knicks under the dolan way of doing things, not so good imo.  

some here think the draft is a waste compared to getting stars, its obvious history is not their strong point along with being proficient in bb acumen and that might explain the positive patsy attitude some have in the face of the obvious mismanagement of the knicks for the last 20 years.


the salary cap alone makes the draft the best and most logical way to build a team.  why confuse the fanatics with the facts they will only interfere with their simple minded approach to how to build a team along with their belief that o is more important than d in winning a champ or even in being competitive.

knickgirl35
knickgirl35

@Knixtradamus  stop hatin knixt. stay melo. PLEASE STAY IN NY!

if you had a lambo you wouldn't be sayin shiit about mel.

chudogz1
chudogz1

@ Knixtradamus. It all sounds good, until u look at our teams draft history... If we had a competent front office, then maybe, but these guys would take Saric if given the first pick.. ALLS guitar shimmy cares about is drafting guys from other countries, to get more fans..... That's why he took Fredvik Weis, was all on Rubios nuts, forgetting to scout Curry in the mean while.... And it's why he took Gallo.... Think about it

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

Bottom line...best player we have had since Pat Ewing is...Carmelo Anthony...no if's and's or buts about it..period.

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

@Biggie They don't take into consideration how draft picks can turn into Kevin Durant...or Greg Oden...its a gamble.

Sandro
Sandro

@thatsagoodpoint @MeloStat301@Biggie

Every Superstar in this league came from the draft.

Portland was screwed on Oden, but got it right on Lillard.
Portland was screwed on Roy, but got it right on Aldridge.

But I guess the draft has no value at all.

The Knicks have been underestimating the draft for years now.
21-40 is the result.

But hey, we have a Star.

Sandro
Sandro

@thatsagoodpoint @Biggie

That one and the Shumpert for OKC's 1st rounder that we turned down...because of Collison.

We ended up with no Collison and no 1st rounder LOL.

The worst FO in the NBA.

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

@Sandro @thatsagoodpoint@MeloStat301@Biggie Draft has value, but tell me,.... the history of the knicks drafting....is it great?? No.


What makes you think, a pick in this years or copuple years from now would be any different???


Because I don't think so.


Its still a gamble, especially with the Knicks.

Sandro
Sandro

@MeloStat301 @Sandro@thatsagoodpoint@Biggie

Okay, fair enough.


Now you tell me, the history of Knicks surrounding Stars with good role players....is it great?? No.

What makes you think, re-signing Melo this year would be any different???

There's a better chance the Knicks make a mistake and get it right in ONE good player in the draft, than they re-signing Melo and surround him with FIVE good players via free agency.

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

@Biggie Listen its not about how the draft picks turn out. Its about the draft picks being held in high value to other league executives, you know the guys who do the trading and negotiating. Its house money and is often the main component to obtaining any superstar. You don't wrecklessly trade first rounders because you can say well look how they turned out. You are essentially trading lottery tickets to teams. A guy doesn't want a lottery ticket after it is a scratched off loser (which most are), but if you offer it to him before..then its an asset.

Sandro
Sandro

@VerySilentJay @Sandro@thatsagoodpoint@MeloStat301@Biggie 

I'm not, BY ANY MEANS, saying that the Knicks would get it right at their 1st attempt. The chances of that happening are slim.

But the chances of we building a good team around a Melo making 130 mil, are none.

And I take the slim chances over the no chances.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@Sandro @thatsagoodpoint @MeloStat301 @Biggie  

Portland didn't screw up on Roy, are you kidding me? Did you actually watch him play? Dude was a beast. One of the best SG's in the league in his time.

It was impossible to foresee all the injuries he eventually went through a couple of years into his career.


And Biggie's point was completely validated by what you just said.


- Portland got it right, after multiple tries. 

- Detroit just got it right with Drummond and Monroe....After how long?

- Washington...Porter, Vesely.... Need I go on?

- Cleveland. Thompson, Bennet....What?

- Even your mighty Masai relies on trades more than the draft. The only players he stuck with in Denver was Lawson and Faried.

In Toronto his team is almost entirely constructed off FA and trades. Valanciunas and DeRozan are picks that were made without him. Why? Because Toront's history of drafting has been more of misses than hits.


The draft has value, of course. But to assume you get it right immediately, or even 2 years or 3 years in is a huge leap, misconception and stretch. 

It takes timing, great scourtng, and too much luck to pull off what OKC and SA have done.

Yet you assume the Knicks will be able to do it.

NoVaCaInE
NoVaCaInE

@Sandro @VerySilentJay @thatsagoodpoint @MeloStat301 @Biggie  The Knicks didn't get it right when they drafted Gallo or Jordan Hill. Even tho they turned out to be solid role players, they aren't stars. They were also the wrong choices for the Knicks. 


This year's Draft only has 1 star. The other players will take a little while to develop on the NBA level. I don't see anyone outside of he who plays like Melo, being a star in this league.


Stars don't grow on trees. That's why the Knicks need to keep Melo.