Knicks not getting dirty in the paint

Harris Decker

Last night the Knicks fell to the Clippers by a score of 109 to 95. With the Knicks suffering their second blowout loss in a row, they are once again playing bad overall basketball. The passing of the last few weeks has disappeared and one or two players are trying to carry the load. Carmelo Anthony and J.R. Smith were those two players last night.

In the loss, they scored 50 points on a dismal 13 of 41. That’s 32% from the field from your top two scorers. That’s simply awful. Anthony made up for it at the free throw line, not missing a single one on 16 attempts. What’s clear if you look at the shot chart is that they failed to get into the paint time and time again, settling for a ton of outside shots.

Of the 95 points scored by the Knicks, only 24 of them came in the paint. That 24 points is actually 10 points worse than their league worst 34.1 points per game in the paint. The Knicks are simply not penetrating and it’s really hurting their offense. Anthony for example took 11 shots in the paint and hit on only 2 of them. Smith managed to score 24 points, with only 3 attempts in the paint. He converted 2 of them.

Tyson Chandler continues to be the only guy who can score in the paint because of his one dimensional offensive game. He is a dunker and rarely starts an offensive possession outside the paint. Chandler aside, the Knicks need to get inside more often and it has to start with Anthony.




98 comments
Seth Nadler
Seth Nadler

If Pablo returns and starts in the 2 pg set, with Melo at the 4, I expect the team to play better, if not, time to clean house

jjokerman
jjokerman

Most of u guys blogging here shouldn't b GM's. Dont give away anything for nothing. There always a team willing to trade with. Teams that need a certain player who have a stockpile of picks R willing to trade a pick. If not play with what u have and hope something clicks until contracts expire. Go KNICKS.

ds2488
ds2488

Knicks should be looking at ANY trades that can rid themselves of the Ray and JR contracts that go an extra year.  2015 is the year for them to refresh their talent and roster and put together a championship roster.  Those bums taking up 11 million is not helpful to that goal.  


Try to trade one of them with Tyson for pennies on the penny.  I don't care what we get back for them, would probably be addition by subtraction, just get back contracts that run for one less year.  


Ideally Knicks can find a taker for Felton at least.  He's not an idiot and a cancer like JR and his contract is for 2 million less per year.  Felton might be appealing to some team as a 10-15 minute per game backup pg.  


I'm not sure teams are stupid enough to take on JR anymore.  There was a reason he got no other offers outside NY this offseason.

ds2488
ds2488

Tyson can't do anything but make uncontested wide open dunks.  His "offensive" game is a freaking joke.  The slightest bit of contact and pressure and he can't finish either.  


Stat is/was our only post presence.  Melo too, but he gets doubled pretty much the second he gets close to the paint when he's backing down, so it's tough.  

knickgirl35
knickgirl35

i would like to jump on the GET RID OF MIKE WOODSON bangwagon because it is legit. here are just of the reasons i have coached in the past so i an not just blowing smoke


mw is going with the exact same game plan he went with in atlanta:


good coaching entails that you make a detailed assessment of each player and put that player the appropriate position to maximize his potential and production. being that every team is different you have to look at every team through a different lens and act accordingly and being that this knicks team has nothing in common with his hawks he is being lazy in not taking the steps needed to make his current players successful


you have to focus on the positive aspects of the collective:


there have been too many cases where a particular player is playing their heart out playing pretty good out there, they make one mistake and what does mw do, he gets in their face and completely blows up the confidence they just built. it deflates the whole team at that point because it places doubt in their minds about their own play-what if i make a mistake gets in their heads. extremely counterproductive coaching.


he publically berates his players:


throwing players under the bus is something he does on a regular basis in an effort to reflect responsibilty away from himself. yes he says in a pretty unconvincing manner "i'm the coach' it's on me" but then in the same breath blames others and says he doesn't trust the rookies who need all of the confidence they can get playing pro ball


so those are just some of the many legitimate reasons mw should be let go. 


johneco
johneco

To all of you who want to rebuild now: wake up.

We're not rebuilding.  First of all, Dolan will never do a full rebuild.

But more practically, you can't rebuild without your own picks.  The essence of a rebuild is to stink 2-3 years and try to get the #1 overall pick those years.  We're missing 2 of our next 3 #1s.  Trading away all your players for whatever other picks you can get is secondary - teams don't trade unprotected #1s any more (except for losers like us and the Nets).  That's not a rebuild.

johneco
johneco

I can't believe the Nets got Marquis Teague for nothing.

I wish it was us. 

dogmanx23
dogmanx23

Most people are against this but I would love a complete rebuild. Trade Melo, Trade Chandler. Package JR or Felton with one of them and start a rebuild.


Giving Melo $25M a year is a mistake, a mistake that will keep up mediocre for the next 3-4 years. Cap management is now just as important when it comes to building a team and you can't do that when one guy takes up so much of the salary cap. 



ENGLBERT_HUMPERDINK
ENGLBERT_HUMPERDINK

The delete freaks are back... People's posts are getting deleted all over again....  

wingo43
wingo43

"Tyson Chandler continues to be the only guy who can score in the paint because of his one dimensional offensive game."


No, Amare is the only guy who  can score in the paint.

Marvel
Marvel

trade Chandler to dallas. sign bynum..


play Tyler..


boom



sportsboy
sportsboy

Beno wants to be traded! so hopefully they can package him with someone else for a trade! team needs a GOOD Trade soon! JR, Shump, Fat boy Felton arnt cutting it! BARG and TYSON dont work. Beno wants to be traded and Woody dont like him anyway. So why not make the trade?

zebeto
zebeto

whats this rumor of Chandler to DAL for Wright,Marion,Larkin plus 2nd rounder im hearing about ????

..

...i kinda do like Larkin, but i dunno bout this "rumor"


Dev The Dude
Dev The Dude

The Knicks need to sign Andrew Bynum and I don't want to hear about him being a cancer because thats here-say. He is still one of the best centers in the NBA when motivated and the Knicks need to sign him before Miami does. Miami knows they need a big man thats capable of hanging with Pacers Hibbert. If Miami signs him no need to play out the rest of the season just give them there rings now! The Knicks suck because they can't compete on the boards with other teams big men there is no excuse for the fact that Melo has to put up all the points and compete against other teams bigs for rebounds also because no one else does. Its time they wake up and stop depending on the injury prone Tyson chandler to do it on on the glass cause he can't and when he doesn't or in his absence we rely on K Mart (who is only an inch taller than Melo) to compete with other teams big men. Amare is the most inconsistent player ever and now that they both are out for two weeks its time to look for help else where to turn this ship around while there is a little time or Mello is going to walk away and I wouldn't blame him. Melo isn't getting any younger and LeBron has two rings going on his third and Wade has three going on his forth. Bynum can give the Knicks the rebounder and defensive presence they need and are currently lacking.

chudogz1
chudogz1

@wicksell. We have nothing anyone wants.. We give up all assets for veterans that always get hurt!

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@Seth Nadler 

If your first prediction is wrong you want the Knicks to listen to your next prediction? You truly sound like one of those 900 number physic who is fortunately out of work!

ds2488
ds2488

@Tomas good post.  Welcome to the club.  Many of us have been saying these things all year.  Anybody who judges this "coach" impartially can see he's horrible.

buddhabing
buddhabing

@Tomas He's a Bobby Knight disciple so that explains the players have to adapt to his system mentality and the berating and belittling of said players. Knicks are just a mish mosh of players and philosophies that have no rhyme or reason. In other words a reflection of the owner. With that being said i really can't get on Woodson too much considering the environment he has to work in and all the instability created by upper management.

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

@Wicksell I have posted a few times that despite the hype rationale for acquiring Bargs as a stretch forward, he came into the league as a Center and, offensively at least, that is what he still is. This is also why he and Chandler are having trouble learning to play together. Chandler takes the space that he needs to rebound and the other low post lane must be let open for Melon in case he wants to drive, this forces Bargs outside where he doesn't belong unless he is left room to drive.


Defensively, all I can say is that Barges was acquired to be STAT if he was unable to play this season as was expected to be the case by many. STAT and Bargs' game is similar defense-wise. Enough said. Bargs is as much a stretch forward as STAT is. Ironically, STAT's best years were when he was played as a Center.

knickgirl35
knickgirl35

@Jaime why do you think melo would allow himself to traded? because they're losing? money trumps everything in the NBA 99% of the time and more goes into this than just what melo wants to do. he has an agent, contract, lawyers, etc. his agent wants to make the most % possible as well. we simplify stuff here to such a short sighted degree. we need to really think things through before we offer opinions.

Sandro Guedes
Sandro Guedes

@johneco

Carmelo making 130 mil would be worst possible decision for the Knicks going forward. So it's either his commitment to sign for 17 mil or trade him and begin a full rebuild.

Lottery picks ain't easy to get, specially on such a hyped draft like this one. But we should stockpile 1st rounders by trading Carmelo and Chandler, and then try to move up in the draft. Maybe some team would roll with getting #17 and #20 for #10.

It's a risk we gotta take. Carmelo leaving for nothing or signing that max contract would be the doom of future years.

zebeto
zebeto

@zebeto....4 first round picks , (and i beleive 2 relatively high ones this years draft ) ..plus boozer and hindrich for Melo ..

.

....Im thinking its a more than fair offer for melo .

ENGLBERT_HUMPERDINK
ENGLBERT_HUMPERDINK

@dogmanx23 The only people that count as far as agreeing with you is Jimmy "Guitar" Dolan. Because I agree with you but I know that doesnt count at all!!!

rico
rico

You forgot the "he lives in indi" part.

Zzzz

Chris
Chris

@Marvel Play Tyler, yes, trade Chandler for whom, expiring contracts? sign Byparanoid, never

rico
rico

@Marvel just remember that Bynum atop of being a world class head case is a walking MASH unit.  Unlike other injured players like Stat, Metta, Kmart, Bynum is not the first guy in the gym working to get back.  


Then again if he produces ..

johneco
johneco

@sportsboy What exactly do you think Beno will bring back in a trade?  I'll tell you: nothing.

zebeto
zebeto

@sportsboy...beno has been a complete flop aswell .........out of shape and slow .

D.Salahudin
D.Salahudin

@zebeto I'd rather trade Tyson to OKC for Perkins, Thabo and their 2 1st round picks this year. We might have a better chance of getting Rondo with those assets. 

rico
rico

@zebeto where did you hear that rumor? Please post links with 'rumors"…thnx!

Chris
Chris

@Dev The Dude Talk to La, Philly and Cavs about andrew, you will get a story far different from your post

Blaze NYK
Blaze NYK

@Dev The Dude Eh, I'm sure Bynum is great in a good, positive environment with a strong coach that he respects.  Problem is, we don't have that now.  You think with JR on the team and Woodson as a coach Bynum wouldn't turn into a cancer?  


So much of this stuff depends on the environment of the organization.  Send Bynum to Miami or San Antonio and he might thrive.  Send him to The Knicks and well…


Our problems go beyond even Woodson or JR or being over the cap.  Its structural.  Someone made the point earlier how even though Dantoni sucked, he was good with young players.  Gallo, Lee,Chandler, Mozgov…even Lin.  He had a knack for getting the most out of young players and helping them improve.  Look at how Shumpert has struggled since his rookie year.  Our organization, and I believe Woodson and his preference for veterans is partly responsible for this, do not develop players.  We bitch about picking Landry Fields and Andy Rautins over Lance Stephenson but there's no guarantee he would have turned into the player he is with Indiana if The Knicks had drafted him.


We need a complete tear down, maybe even trading Melo.  For draft picks and young players and maybe one rising star like Blake Griffin.  Suck this year and next, get a high draft pick next year, get some picks for Melo or Chandler or whoever else…even if they are second rounders and invest in player development big time.  Get a coach who likes working with young players.  Look at The Pacers, look at The Spurs.  Especially in today's CBA its about developing from within.  If all we do is resign Melo to a max and then blow our remaining cap space on another big time FA or two, we'll be in the same boat.  Melo or the other big FA will get injured, we won't have good role players, etc.  


So give Melo two options.  Resign for say 16 to 18 million a year and build around him, Shump, Hardaway, Murry and Tyler plus whoever you can sign with the cap space freed up from chandler, stat and bargs.  If Melo balks at that, trade him for say Blake and build around Blake and the young guys.  Get rid of Chandler, STAT, Bargs, JR, Felton, Kmart, Pablo and Beno, MWP.  These guys suck collectively but individually they might be worth something to a contending team as role players.  Grab second rounders and late first rounders.  Find unknowns from Europe.  Invest in player development and scouting.  This is the best way to go.  

rico
rico

I'd give Bynum a shot but it's risky. Knix have too many headcases already one more could be disastrous. But i'm a risk taker and i'd do it

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

@Dev The Dude Bynum does not want to accept the veteran minimum. The problem is one of salary slots. To give him what he wants and fit him into a slot is the problem.

dagawd
dagawd

@Dev The Dude  The knicks only do Dumb moves


Giving Bynum a shot is Something Smart to do

knickgirl35
knickgirl35

@buddhabing @Tomas a true bobby knight disciple would have not only taken his easy yelling and embarrassment of players but he would have adopted his winning qualities as well. mw is not an intelligent person, he takes the easy way out all of the time. he didn't LISTEN AND LEARN he WATCHED AND IMITATED which even a monkey can do.

BigChiefTriangle
BigChiefTriangle

@Mr.Boots @Wicksell  

If there were already questions about STAT"s "fit" between Carmelo and Tyson,  why would the Knicks want to acquire Bargnani, who is as much a stretch forward and poor team defender/rebounder as STAT...it really makes no sense to me...Bargnani is also an inferior paint scorer to STAT, with paint scoring a major need for this team.  

If Bargnani was a brought in to replicate STAT's production, and STAT's production and fit was already on shaky ground...what's the point? Logic obviously wasn't working on the Knicks' side of the trading table...

Knicks should have tried to acquire a player that would have complemented this team (we needed PG play, paint scoring, and additional rim protection)

ENGLBERT_HUMPERDINK
ENGLBERT_HUMPERDINK

@Sandro Guedes I agree but, does the knick hierarchy or should I just say Dolan agree with us here???

johneco
johneco

@knicks50@johneco

Funny, but I think that's an exaggeration.

He was considered a bigger talent than his brother in HS, faster and more of a pure PG. 

He's looked horrible this year, but he's only 20 and is likely to grow out of it. 

rico
rico

@Chris @Dev The Dude Back in 2005 Isiah was tempted to draft Bynum when the Knicks picked # 8 in the lottery.  He did not because he was afraid of his character issues  which the Knicks were stocked with already.  Zeke opted for Fry and Bynum was drafted in the late 1st round. Knicks struck out on Fry @ #8 but did well with David Lee @ 30th. So it goes

nncyel
nncyel

@Mr.Boots @Dev The Dude Exactly. Moreover, you guys always assume that the player in question wants to join the team. There are two sides here, the organization and the player who is a free agent - he's free to choose the team he wants to play with.  If the player doesn't want to join a team, in this case the Knicks, in free agency it doesn't matter what the organization wants or the fans want the organization to do.

What makes anyone think that Bynum would want to play for the Knicks any more than he wanted to play for Cleveland?

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

You can't use the word "logic" in the same sentence or even the same paragraph when discussing the Knicks plan.


I will say that Bargs could be more of a paint threat should he be allowed to get the ball in the low-post and be given room and time to operate. The Knicks use him as poorly as they used Gallo. The euro films of Gallo all show him moving and going to the hoop and passing the ball. So, of course, the Knicks stuck him out on the arc like a stick of broccoli. They seemed t have seen Bargs in a similar light and are only now starting to understand his game.


I don't ever expect him to be an all-star, but he can be more effective with intelligent coaching.  OOpps, I used the words coaching and intelligent in the same sentence talking about the Knicks. My bad.

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@johneco

Well as for someone who knows the game and know talent that's what I think of his game and prospects. Bottom line is he should have stayed in school!

D.Salahudin
D.Salahudin

@bloop I totally agree that Perkins doesnt make you immediately better but I don't see the Knicks improving much this year regardless. OKC has has great deal of young assets and doesnt need two late 1st rounders as much as Tyson, so I could imagine them making the trade. His value is pretty high around the league.

johneco
johneco

@nncyel@Mr.Boots@Dev The Dude

Exactly.  Plus if Miami wanted to sign him they would have already.  What, you think if Miami and us both like him he's going to choose us?  Miami even has more money to give.