Poll: Cut him, bench him, trade him or play him

If you were Mike Woodson and Steve Mills, how would you handle the J.R. Smith situation?

60 comments
andrew
andrew

We needs to get rid of Felton's outa shape bum ass

Dave Kaye
Dave Kaye

I was a big supporter of JR, but his antics are just too much. He's never gonna change and if he does it will be too late for this career. If this was the first time fine whatever, but this is the theme through his career I hoped he changed, but guess not. Things will only get worse. Time to move on

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

Frank Isola @FisolaNYDN

I'm hearing J.R. Smith was upset he played just 45 secs of OT in Monday 's win over Suns. J.R. said something to Mike Woodson & was benched


I know someone mentioned JR and Woody might have gotten into it.



saintknick
saintknick

The reason cutting JR could make sense is that you lower the cap hit and stretch it over a longer time. This gives the team more flexibility in 2014 and 15 in exchange for a little less over the 2016-2018.


The best thing to do is cut him AFTER the season if you can't find a valuable trade partner (and he continues to suck).


Right now He would have 2014, 2015, and player option in 16. If you cut him in between seasons, the 2016 option isn't exercised.  Then you take the approx 6mil in 14 and 15, and you cut it to 3 mil each year in 14, 15, 16, and 17.


What this does is give more flexibility in 2015 (when we want maximum flexibility) in exchange for exception-level cap hits for twice as long. 3 million isn't likely going to make or break the flexibility of a team that will probably be in luxury tax in 2015 anyway. 6 million, however, could.


.... For the relevant text of the CBA (also gives the info explaining WHY stat and melo couldn't restructure previously to bring in a guy like CP3 in a sign and trade)


Individually negotiated revisions to the payment schedule are not allowed for contracts signed or extended under the current CBA2. For these contracts or extensions the remaining guaranteed salary for a waived player is "stretched" and paid in equal amounts over a greater time span, as follows:

  • If the player is waived from July 1 to August 31, then his remaining salary is paid over twice the number of years remaining on his contract, plus one. For example, if the player is waived on August 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.3 million, respectively, then his remaining salary is paid over five years (two seasons times two, plus one), in even amounts of $4.1 million per year.
  • If the player is waived from September 1 to June 30, then the current season is paid per the normal payment schedule, and any remaining years are stretched over twice the number of years remaining plus one as described above. For example, if the player is waived on December 1 with two seasons remaining on his contract at $10.2 million and $10.5 million, respectively, then the current season (at $10.2 million) is paid normally, and the final season (at $10.5 million) is stretched over three years (one season times two, plus one) and paid in even amounts of $3.5 million per year.

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

I truly hope we show up and play well against Indy.  This has the potential to be really ugly.

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

My sources says JR didn't play last night because during Woody's pregame speech, JR untied Herb's shoes.

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

Boston is putting together a pretty intersting future in the next 5 years while were stuck. I wonder if Rondo is part of that future though?

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

It gets better. Miami gave away picks to BOSTON


Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA

As part of three team trade, Toney Douglas will go to the Miami Heat, league source tells Yahoo Sports. Joel Anthony goes to Boston.


Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA

From Miami, Boston will also receive Philadelphia's projected future first-round pick and a future second round pick, league source tells Y

moneyball
moneyball

The Trade below tells me that Rondo is available. Do whatever we need to do to get him.

Andrea Canevari
Andrea Canevari

"Play him, we need more scoring".  it's  a joke right?


this team has many scorer but no one game for them. the only scheme  is get the ball to melo and pray...

J.R. has the same tipe of attack as Melo, obviously less talent but he prefer iso.

this team has Amare and Bargnani, two of the worst defensive player in the league but they have great attack skills!!!!

if you want more points try to create more games for this two guys!!!!

Play maker wanted....

and1buckets
and1buckets

Buy him and his entire family a one-way ticket back to China.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

Cutting him is absurd.


I don't think anyone can deny the talent JR has. No one can deny the scoring he can bring, and the presence he can be, WHEN FOCUSED.

His comments last night are obviously og a man who's done with everything, though I think it's shameless after everyone's gone above and beyond for him.

He's done nothing to reciprocate. We're talking about someone who doesn't appreciate what he has.This, to me, is an insinuation of a man that won't leave everything out on the floor every night alongside his negative influence in the locker room. JR's about JR and nothing else.

Last season he had Kidd, Sheed, and KT keeping him in check. It'bls clear that this time around no one's holding him accountable andJR's gone back to being....well, JR

It's a damn shame to see all that talent go to waste, but I think it's time to part ways with. Not only will it bring balance to the locker room, but it will help for a more balanced shot chart a more team oriented ball.

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

What if Melo said this?

"I get jealous sometimes when I look over at KD and he's like 16-for-32 (from the field) and then 14-for-34. ... Man," James told ESPN.com's Tom Haberstroh.

"But there are games where I have it going, and then at the end of the game, I'm like, damn, I shot just 12-for-16? Why don't I get up at least six or seven more? I definitely notice it."

-Lebron James 1/14/14


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10291123/nba-lebron-james-taking-easy

rico
rico

Why does everyone assume JR is not-tradeable?


a. Nearly every team in the NBA has a guy or two they would like to jettison.

b. For as bad as JR has been this year, he was superb last year and a lot of teams remember that JR

c. His contract is not THAT horrible considering there are plenty of other horrible to much worse contracts in the NBA.


Unless it's an all out Marbury/ Eddie Curry-like revolt, I think the Knicks can move Jr.



mrfurious
mrfurious

@Jimmy gee thanks for you pop psychology.


conversely 38% of people are jock sniffers who are so in love with their own opinion they can't see the obvious...Smith is playing himself out of the league. He is doing that to himself. 


Thats not an assessment of talent its an assessment of his .02 cent head and yours it seems.

Jon Quackenbush
Jon Quackenbush

C'mon man, a lot of people are tired of his sloppy style of play.  He is like Melo without the consistency... It really comes down to talent not meaning squat if your basketball brain isn't developed.  Those who feel that way are completely justified in that position.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@SheSaidSpikeWho Jesus, who does this kid think he is?

As much as it sucks to say because he's so talented and there's so much he can give, he's gotta go.

At this point, I'd rather have a more balanced locker room, a better atmosphere, and better fluidity and team ball on the floor in our backcourt.

This also gives Timmy, Murry, and Prigs more minutes, as well as take minutes off Felton's heavy minuets.

saintknick
saintknick

@BiggieSmalls What they are up to is brilliantly playing the situation for maximum flexibility, like good orgs other than LA do. 


They now have multiple scenario possibilities....


1) Rondo comes back and has game. boston has the assets in picks and players to pull of a variety of sign-and-trades to immediately retool - and maybe keep a pick as well.


2) Rondo looks less than great - Boston will know before ANYONE else, and can get MORE than he should be worth in picks and assets in order to start a full rebuild - not a sign and trade for an established vet, but a young rebuild


3) Rondo looks totally broken - Boston can make some good picks, see if Rondo is better after more time to recover, and will still have picks to make the scenario 1 & 2 moves next season.

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@BiggieSmalls What do you think the Heat do this offseason? Do you think guys pick up their options (Bosh, Wade, James)? Do they opt-out and resign? I don't trust Pat Riley. He'll make a master move at the last hour. I don't put it past him to try and get Melo.

rico
rico

@Kiyan Carter why? Millers contract ends sooner. It's obvious that JR in a contract year is the good JR. JR with 3 fat payday years is lost

moneyball
moneyball

@orlando_knickfan

Philly has to make the playoffs for the 1rst round pick to become viable

The Warriors will send guard Toney Douglas to the Miami Heat, and Miami sends center Joel Anthony and a future first-round pick and second-round pick to the Celtics, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

Miami will send a first-round pick it owns from the Philadelphia 76ers to the Celtics, but that pick becomes two second-round picks should the Sixers miss the playoffs in 2013-14 and 2014-15. The Heat will save nearly $10 million in salary and luxury tax with the unloading of Anthony's contract

johneco
johneco

@BiggieSmalls

No way.  Woodson is a tenured NBA coach, there's no way he would accept being told who to play.  Maybe if it was Herb Williams... 

joeknix
joeknix

@orlando_knickfan Melo would never say this because he shoots more shots per game than anyone in the league including Durant so it would be silly.  Melo is shooting 21 SPG . . . looked it up this morning out of curiosity.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@orlando_knickfan 

I think LeBron was being sarcastic. 12 for 16 is tons better than 14-34 and 16-32.

When LeBron was ringless in Cleveland and hoisting up more shots, he was getting the same type of flack that Melo gets.

LeBron got rings.

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@orlando_knickfan Was he serious or taking shots? Lol. 32 and 34? That's a lot of shots. Why would someone be jealous of that? I mean, 12-16 is good and he is the 3rd leading scorer in the league and has two rings.  That's a weird comment. 


Melo has too much pride to say he's jealous of anyone lol. 

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@rico a. Indeed.

b. All his efforts last season have been rendered moot after his awful play in the playoffs, the explanation as to why that happened, and his activities off the court that later hurt his team. And his play now does not justify the minutes he's been getting thus far. 


c. Yes, his contract isn't awful, but the baggage it brings is just way too heavy for some teams to take.



Imo, JR is textbook untradeable. As far as I'm concerned, he deserve a role on the bench until his actions and demeanor say otherwise.

ds2488
ds2488

@rico 


A. true


b.  A lot of teams also remember the JR before last year in a contract year, and the word was he barely received any interest/offers this offseason because most teams are smart enough to understand the contract year phenomenon.


c.  I definitely agree with that, but you also have to remember other teams are not just taking in a bad contract, but also someone with a very bad reputation and numerous incidences of bad conduct and immature behavior.  Most teams don't want that kind of headache at all would be my guess.  

saintknick
saintknick

@moneyball @saintknick   (EDIT: unless you mean the original post and not my comment)


well thought out response. Thanks for that, it adds a lot to the convo.


I guess making a point (that stretching the hit is better than the additional 3 mil in cap hit in 2015), explained in detail, and cited to actual authority, is garbage.


Best post must be - "Ermegerd! Knicks best evaH! Woody Sucks! Felton worst ever! Melo MVP! Stat is a 40 mpg dominant force!" 

rico
rico

@VerySilentJay @rico  I guess we'll see won't we? 

Knick Management does have the market cornered on "stupidity".  

Plenty of teams may look past JR's baggage wanting desperately to get rid of one of their own headaches.

unless a player is injured or under investigation, they're all tradable. 

Andre Miller seems like the no- brainer.  Denver dying to get rid of him, and the Knicks dying to get rid of JR. 

I know JR was a Nugget once upon a time but that was with another Nugget Management regime.  They also need a 2 guard and um, weed is legal there :)




saintknick
saintknick

@moneyball @saintknick 


Look, if you can get anything of value for him, obviously you do that. But the media-assumption (and I get not trusting it) is that no one wants JR because he's a headcase and terribly inconsistent. That was all before THIS season when this REIGNING 6th man signed for $6mil (plus his brother's salary) - likely suggesting he didn't get a much better offer from anywhere else.  THIS season, he's been beyond terrible, only hurting his limited value.


You can trade guys when they out-perform their contract. Much harder when they under-perform.


So if he shows up and starts playing well, OR if he has teams who really want him, fine, I agree, you don't cut him. But if he sucks most of the season, then the question is as I saw it above - what is the best "out" from JR.


And by the way - assuming my post was the worst in history, it has now been replaced by yours. stating that he could possibly be a piece to obtain rondo is absolute nonsense, unless included ONLY to help make salaries match - which is irrelevant if the knicks are trading him between seasons, especially since the team has other contracts to make money work.

moneyball
moneyball

@saintknick  Waive JR is as dumb as it gets. The guy is currently the 6MOY and has trade value if it don't work here. He could possibly be a piece to obtain Rondo.

saintknick
saintknick

@BiggieSmalls @saintknick In this, I agree with you. They have some bad contracts. But now, they have enough assets to start getting out from under these contracts and build.


I hate boston, but they will figure out a way to be relevant by 2015.

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@BiggieSmalls @SheSaidSpikeWho Most definitely, a lot will ride on whether they win this year. I guess once they figure out what Lebron is doing as well, then the other chips will fall. Heat fans that I know want Melo so bad ( I hear it almost every day) and I don't think I could stomach that lol. The thought makes me sick. 


I think it'll be interesting to see what happens with Wade. Will they give him the Kobe treatment and ensure that he retires with the Heat or will they move him/let him go a la Paul Pierce? I'm always interested to see what happens to the waning superstar who brought rings to their franchise. 

rico
rico

@Kiyan Carter Here is how that move helps  Kiyan.   Andre Miller would help a bit a PG, but more-so the Knicks would get rid of Smith who has a 3 year contract.  Miller's contract I believe is expiring, so trading away Smith would be getting out of that mistake of a contract. you dig?  Otherwise he will be a potential distraction or worse for 3 years, while Miller will be gone next season. 

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@moneyball @SheSaidSpikeWho I agree. However, considering that he's coming off an ACL injury, how long do you think it'll take for him to really get into the swing of things? Some say it takes almost a full year to regain everything. So they tank, get a good pick next year, and possibly a free agent in 2015 when Rondo is fully ready to go 


Rondo could also not agree with that plan at all lol. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Heard he was just assigned to the D League.