Report: Knicks open to dealing Smith, Shumpert, Larkin

The Knicks have Carmelo Anthony back, but Phil Jackson is far from done.

ESPN is reporting that the Knicks are willing to deal guards J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert and Shane Larkin according to a league source (ESPN, July 20th).

The Knicks have a log jam at the guard position and the only untouchable player on the team is Tim Hardaway Jr. 

Smith is a former sixth man of the year while Shumpert is an excellent defensive guard. Larkin was obtained along with Jose Calderon and Samuel Dalembert in the Tyson Chandler trade (TKB, June 25th).




480 comments
kph16
kph16

You know, Lebron can opt out of his contract after this year... Is it possible maybe him and Melo have some sort of plan. Is it ironic that he can opt out the year the Knicks lose a lot of crappy salaries? I know it's probably unlikely but there is a possibility!

lindro88
lindro88

Iman Shumpert was the least productive starting player in the NBA last year.  Not just at his position, at any position.  I believe a lot of that was a result of the way Woodson treated him.  He may never turn into what we hoped he would be as a rookie, but if he is coached up correctly, he should become a solid player.  I was all for moving him last year, but now I'd like to see what Fisher and Phil can do with him.

rico
rico

funny thing when you meet up with your friends and have this discussion or others like it, it lasts maybe 5 minutes, and then you move on.  


here every blog post is the discussion of a lifetime :)


(not judging but interesting dynamics)

barnaby87
barnaby87

A max contract can't purely be defined by PPG, rebounds, etc.  It always goes according to what the market dictates.  4 years ago, Joe Johnson got a max contract.  If stats dictated a max contract, Kyle Lowry would have gotten one this off-season.  You can't look at Gasol's numbers and say that he doesn't deserve a max contract.  He's playing next to Zach Randolph who gets a lot more looks.  He's a traditional center playing in the high post similar to a guy like a Roy Hibbert.  Hibberts makes 15 mil per year and when the contract was signed, a lot said it was a bargain when the guy had never averaged more than 13 points per game. I'm not saying Gasol is worth a max contract, but considering the market, he'll get it; especially considering that he's a top 5 center in the league.  He's also worth more than 15 mil a year.

cole3244
cole3244

i know chandler wasn't respected by most on tkb but without him and if shump is shipped out defense will be a thing of the past if it ever really existed, plus we seem to be trending older if the rumors are to be believed.

phenomenal
phenomenal

For those talking about not wanting to give out max contracts.....

I think that term is a bit misleading or not used very well. 

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG, but....

There is no absolute max.  The actual NBA max salaries are lower than we think, cause most players benefit from a "max exception" which allows them to be paid 105% of their previous years salary (which is higher than the NBA's max contract scale).  So marc is at $15.8 this year so his max is $16.6 for next year (with a max of 4.5% raises).  So are ppl saying they don't think he is worth $16.6?  Or are you saying he isn't worth the $20s like typical "max" guys?

Also, who said it would take "the max" to sign him?

Again, I may be wrong on the whole thing, but that's how I understood it.

phenomenal
phenomenal

Re: Kobe to NY

Don't worry about who the Alpha Dog is.  I'm sure Kobe will play the D.Wade role cause he KNOWS his only way to a 6th ring at this point in his career is playing along side a stud. I wonder if this 'rumor' actually has legs...

Re: Marc Gasol

Dude can hoop.  Watching 5 min of a Memphis game will show you that.  He has old-school center skills and can defend.  Top 5 center in the league.  Al Jefferson is another good option though.  If you overpay anywhere

Re: 2015 Free Agents

Outside of Lamarcus, Kevin, Rajon, and Marc, there are some decent 2ndary guys out there.  The issue might be what we can get em for, and if they'd wanna leave where they are at to come to NY, but Deandre Jordan, Millsap, Monta, Rudy... and even some tertiary guys like Danny or Jeff Green. 

barnaby87
barnaby87

Scott Berger-Felder, not to single you out man, but want to see why Al Jeff isn't a max player? http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/al-jefferson-knows-bad-defense-even-seems-surprised-182657901.html


Want to know why Marc Gasol arguably is?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year_Award


Do we need more players who can score?  No.  We need players who can defend.  Hence, why Gasol will make more money than Al Jeff.  Who wins a one on one?  My vote is Gasol.  Not to mention that Gasol is one of the best passing big men in the league which is essential in the triangle.

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

Ultimately, Jordan and Scottie Pippen, like Kobe Bryant a decade later, understood the intricacies of the offense, and were able to meld their talents and off-the-charts basketball IQs to it. And Fisher thinks Anthony can do the same, operating out of the pinch post the way Jordan, Pippen and Bryant did.

"Oh, yeah. I've imagined it quite a bit," Fisher said last week during the Samsung Summer League. "It's an area where he likes to operate, even before now, being able to play in this system. But it will be important that we don't just put him there and watch him play, which is easy to do with great players.

"I hope we'll have things going on around him, wherever he catches the basketball, that will let him make his play, but will also allow him to make plays for his teammates, which will make the game easier for him. But also raise the level of his teammates around him. And in that way, everyone is really just in a place of confidence and trust with each other."


NBA.COM

barnaby87
barnaby87

Scott Berger-Felder, not to single you out man, but want to see why Al Jeff isn't a max player? http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/al-jefferson-knows-bad-defense-even-seems-surprised-182657901.html


Want to know why Marc Gasol arguably is?  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Defensive_Player_of_the_Year_Award


Do we need more players who can score?  No.  We need players who can defend.  Hence, why Gasol will make more money than Al Jeff.  Who wins a one on one?  My vote is Gasol.  Not to mention that Gasol is one of the best passing big men in the league which is essential in the triangle.

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

As Jackson had to convince Jordan, Fisher will have to convince Anthony that sticking with the triangle and trusting his teammates will ultimately make the game easier for him. That process of building trust and chemistry was always a work in progress with Jordan, who often fought the constraints the offense put on his one-on-one game. But Jordan had achieved more success to that point in his pro career than Anthony has. Jordan's Bulls had made three straight conference finals, losing each time to Detroit; Anthony has only been once, with the Nuggets in 2009. And Jordan had already won two of his five MVPs. "'Melo can definitely do it," Hardaway, Jr., said. "He showed it a lot in the season, believe it or not. When we was double-teamed, when he was trapped, he was always finding that open guy. It was very rare for him to shoot through three or four guys. He'll succeed through this offense. Everybody has to trust in it, not only one person, but everybody has to." NBA.com

rico
rico

@kph16 Lebron is so invested in Cleveburg and that area now, no chance he's going to bump and run. There is no plan like that. 

rico
rico

@lindro88 you give him a couple months and see if he's "a different player", if he is you can move him then because if he's pretty good the Knicks will have to pay him next year. if he's the same old Shump his value will plummet further.  Shump had every opportunity to show is game last year and he showed up for 3 of them.  

phenomenal
phenomenal

@Scott Berger-Felder I don't worry about that cause, for any team, if your top guy goes down, you're not winning anything anyway.  For most teams if your 2nd top guy goes down you're not winning anything.

To me the question should be if Marc is good enough to be a valid 2nd option.

I think he is in the right system, and I think the triangle is the right system (for him).

I actually think it will ridiculously enhance his and melo's game tremendously.

barnaby87
barnaby87

@Sandro Guedes We can't acquire players via S&T because we're over the cap.  Back to the Gasol/Al Jeff talk now.

barnaby87
barnaby87

@Scott Berger-Felder Was Joe Johnson dominant?  No.  Player dominance doesn't dictate a max player; the market does unfortunately.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Scott Berger-Felder 

Big Al took 6 more shots per game than  Gasol.It's hard to score 20 ppg when you only get 12 shots. It's all about opportunity. The Knicks are going to take between 80-85 shots per game. Jefferson won't get 19 shots per game on a team with Melo.

phenomenal
phenomenal

@Scott Berger-Felder Yeah, gasol isn't  a big time rebounder, but remember he's in the HIGH post more cause he plays with Zach "Rebound" Randolph.

Regardless, Gasol will be better in the triangle than Al.  Not saying Al wouldn't be good (cause he can play the Bynum role), but Marc could play the Pau role which is more versatile.

Josh Gabriel
Josh Gabriel

@phenomenal Pretty sure it doesn't have legs. SAS was just suggesting it, unless he heard something about it from sources, which may be why he put it out there.

barnaby87
barnaby87

@phenomenal Gasol > Al Jeff.  Pretty good offense + outstanding defense > Very good offense + terrible defense.

phenomenal
phenomenal

@Mel Brown Milsap became a player man.  Developed a decent outside shot.  I remember when he first came around he was just a rebound / hustle guy

barnaby87
barnaby87

@BiggieTKB Exactly.  So Hibbert's worth a max contract, but apparently Marc Gasol who is better in just about every facet of his game outside of blocking shots, isn't. 

barnaby87
barnaby87

@Scott Berger-Felder @barnaby87 So let me ask you this.  He fits the offense perfectly, right?  What happens if there are no good big man FA's available in 2015 or 2016 and he's the only one. Would you offer him a max contract to ensrue you get him?  I would.

lindro88
lindro88

@KnickName @Sandro Guedes  Monroe?  He played like a beast the last few months of the season.  After Cheeks was fired look at his numbers.  He's an old school Center.  I'd love to have that guy on the Knicks.  Not gonna happen, but it would be a nice fit.

phenomenal
phenomenal

@barnaby87 @phenomenal I agree.  If the fear is that Gasol will take up too much money, Al Jeff at 3-4 mil less could be a good alternative.  I prefer paying Gasol and getting creative on the fringes, though.

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

@Knicks_Fanatic @MeloStat301  No too sure about that...Mike was a 7 year vet once Phil became coach in 91...its all about accepting the system, which I think these vets will...especially having Phil in tow...I think the vets who know they wont be here long wont be excited, others will.

phenomenal
phenomenal

@barnaby87 @Scott Berger-Felder 

Guys, good points on both sides of this Gasol/Max debate.  At the end of the day, I think the salary cap and how much we have to spend in 2015 + the relative bids of other teams for these guys will dictate the best plan of action. 

barnaby87
barnaby87

@Scott Berger-Felder @barnaby87 21 ppg is dominant? 

barnaby87
barnaby87

@Scott Berger-Felder He openly admitted that he needs to work on his defense.  Stop looking at blocks, rebounds, etc.  K-Love's rebounding numbers are off the charts, but he's arguably the worst big man defender in the league.

phenomenal
phenomenal

@Scott Berger-Felder @barnaby87 Usually when people talk about a player's defense it is about man to man, or man to man + help defense / rim protection if you are a big man.  this is why kevin love, david lee are considered bad defenders even though they are great rebounders. 

a friend of mine used to always argue that david lee is a better defender than people say cause of his rebounding which is considered (the last line of defense) but most people shrug that off and just focus on his matador D.

barnaby87
barnaby87

@Scott Berger-Felder @barnaby87 Are you basing it off of blocks?  Rebounds?  Dodging the point.  Gasol has been in the discussion for DPOY every year for the past 3-4 years or so.  My point is that considering the way our team is constructed, we need defense over offense.  Gasol is arguably the league's best defensive center.  I'll take his 14 ppg and guaranteed great D over Al Jeff's 20 ppg and spotty D.