The Good, The Bad and The Walt Clyde: Week 8

Ben Kopelman

Every Knicks fan struggles with the optimistic angel on one shoulder (we got Eddy Curry!) and the ever-depressing devil on the other (we still have Eddy Curry??!!). After each week this season, we will offer up the positives and negatives of the last seven days in Knicks-land to help sort it all out and put your mind at ease. 

Record during the week: 1-2
Game results: Loss vs. Washington  (102-101); Win @ Milwaukee (107-101); Loss vs. Memphis (95-87)
Overall record / Games Behind: 8-18, 3.5 GB

THE GOOD

Winning is Better Than Losing: As ugly as that game against the Bucks was, it was a win nonetheless. Right now, the team is a paltry 8-18. That is not a good record. But 7-19 is worse. So, as painful as it was watching a Knicks team struggle to beat a horrible and hurt Bucks team, the Knicks need wins as bad as any other squad in the league, so I’ll take one however I can get it. There are surely no moral victories at this point, so a moral loss-real victory is just fine by me.

The 76ers: Finally, the Knicks are out of the basement. After another poor showing this week, the 76ers stand alone in last place of the Atlantic, with the Knicks a full game ahead of them in the standings. If misery loves company, then horribly disappointing basketball teams love even more pathetic teams. Except, of course, when one of those teams has lottery picks and the other doesn’t, right, right…

Healthy Tyson: While “Healthy and Dominant Tyson” would have been more fun, it was good to see TC out there after missing essentially the entire season to this point. He has not looked particularly sharp just yet, but he is officially back after logging serious minutes against the Bucks and then starting against the Grizz. His overall competitiveness and leadership will be vital if this team has any shot at rattling off a winning streak. Which, ya know, they kinda, sorta, really need to do.

THE BAD

This.  

And This.

Oh, Right, and This.

THE WALT CLYDE

As Scared as the Rest of Us: “WHAT IS HE DOING? WHAT IS HE DOING, FOLKS? Why would he shoot the ball? Why?” It is scary that this could be one of two plays from this week but I am guess you did not have to click that hyperlink to put these comments into the proper context.


You can follow Ben on Twitter @bkop2000

90 comments
Kvdaone
Kvdaone

Look at the team numbers and then look at the coaching. No starting Knick avg 10+ other than Melo. How sad is this fact?lol. Thats why when ppl say trade Melo its funny because imagine some of these young players coming here to play with that mess lol. Their game will sink as well. Woody can be smarter and make them run a whole smoother but he cant make them put the pill in the hole. JR and Hardaway jr are doin what they do but thats where it stops.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

Speaking of boycotts and such, tonight will be the first Knicks game in Orlando that my wife and I will not attend in 3 years. We aren't staying home to hurt Dolan or any other motive. It just that watching this team is about as exciting as watching paint dry. They are lethargic and have no energy.

We were always excited about going, stopping in the restaurants on Church St, and hanging out with all the other New Yorkers down in Orlando. But I have no desire to drive a 300 mile round trip to watch this team this year. I'm not angry or mad, just not willing to go to the effort to get there to see the product.

Kvdaone
Kvdaone

What is the NBA? It is comprised of 30 owners. Dolan happens to be one. Owners get what they want until players force a situation. The new breed of players dont want to be Barkleys and Reggie Millers so the new CBA has shifted because of this fact. Melo and Dolan have issues and its obvious. To keep Melo from screaming trade me, they basically leave him in control of basketball operations. How you say? Look at his answers to questions in the media. Woody shouldve been gone but because hes Melos guy hes secure. Dolan and his idiot advisors have to deal with it because they havent made the best moves in the offseason to give the team a boost. This will not stop unless fans get disrespectful with this org.

C0P0
C0P0

I've mentioned it already in this thread but it's time to..


OFFICIALLY BOYCOTT MSG AND THE KNICKS!

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

Marc Berman @NYPost_Berman

Give World Peace a chance of needing knee surgery. Woodson says former Artest mulling what to do nyp.st/1d40ufn

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

Just want to post a point that I haven't really seen discussed. Many posters here have decried the Knicks organization's relationship with CAA and how Dolan should not be held to their dictates. Question: if CAA has Dolan and his band as an opening act for The Eagles, a CAA client, doesn't that mean that Guitar Jimmy and his band are CAA clients?


So maybe, CAA is running the Garden while Jimmy goes on tour playing Guitarzan. If he is a CAA client as well as an employer of CAA talent, where does the conflict of interest line get drawn? By the MSG corporate interests, or more importantly, by the NBA. It all seems very ethically incestuous.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

THE GOOD!

Vegas oddmakers make the Knicks 1.5 point favorites in tonights game.

THE BAD

Vegas oddmakers make the Knicks only 1.5 point favorites in tonight's game.

THE UGLY

The game no doubt.

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

I read a rumor about George Hill, Granger, and a pick for Rondo. Dear God...

tommy2b
tommy2b

I lol'd when I read this from Marc Stein's ESPN power rankings this week: 


"I suspect you'll find it pretty unsurprising to hear that the last player to hoist 17 3s in a game before J.R. Smith did so against Milwaukee was ... J.R. Smith in December 2009."

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

I go with this lineup for a couple of games.


Tyson

Melo

shumpert

Hardaway

PG


Thjr is the ONLY guy we have that can sensibly stretch the floor and make teams think twice about double teaming.  I think this will make Shumpert concentrate solely on defense letting Melo, Hardaway, and Udrih/Fetlon carry the offense thereby relaxing #21 If the PG is Priglioni, our 3rd option is gone, but the offense may open up more and his D is better.  Why no JR? As of right now he is a walking talking black hole when the ball gets to him, plays bad defense, and simply cannot be trusted to make sensible choices on offense.

At least Timmy has athleticism in the open floor, and get his own shot way easier than JR at this point.  

C0P0
C0P0

40 years and counting. 

Don't expect a championship coming to a Garden near you, anytime soon either.


With no picks until 2020! LOL or close to it, WTF is going to happen to this team at the end of this season? 

Melo is out of here. 

Coach is gone. 

Teams' best asset after Melo, is Hardaway jr. That's it! This team is F'd.

Dolan has managed to make this team THE WORST owned and managed sports team in all of sports and that's been that way for decades. 

I'm a Knicks Fan for life but my last paid game will be Knicks vs Heat in Jan. After that, the bank is closed indefinitely! 


It's time to make Dolan pay for this mess and not us loyal Fans. 

Enough is enough.

1harris1
1harris1

@Knicks_Fanatic I hear you, but it's not like our Knicks have been consistently good in recent past.  Were we excited about seeing the team, going to restaurants, and hanging out with New Yorkers during the Isiah years?  Or how about during 'D'Antoni's first couple of seasons?

ds2488
ds2488

@Knicks_Fanatic Good for you KF.  I can't break this team lol, it's an addiction.  Why should you put in all the effort to see them when they won't reciprocate the effort on the floor?



tommy2b
tommy2b

@Knicks_Fanatic this is the real fear of sports teams.  Not anger or frustration from fans - that means they still care.  Apathy is what worries them.

C0P0
C0P0

@OLD_KNICK That's why I'm rallying for a boycott. It's time to force this guy's hand the only way he understands, from his wallet. BOYVOTT MSG AND THE KNICKS!

tommy2b
tommy2b

@C0P0 My wallet boycotted MSG many years ago, lol

Chris
Chris

@Mr.Boots Bingo, everybody's making money, and we are suffering

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Mr.Boots 

Remember back a few years ago when we all poo-pooed on Tommy Dee when he would talk about the power that agents had in running the league. He was right.

Don't forget that Dolan also books music acts from CAA into the Garden, besides listening to Leon Rose and World Wide Wes on hoops matters. I'd say we wouldn't have Bargnani, if he wasn't a CAA client. No one in their right mind would have given up three draft picks for him.

C0P0
C0P0

@SheSaidSpikeWho That would seal the deal for The Pacers. They'd #1 contenders to de-thrown The Heat. As if they weren't already. LOL

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

@SheSaidSpikeWho Have to take back Wallace to make the money work, but it would work. Good move if your Boston, however, bad move if your indy.

Rondo is just coming off of injury so you have no idea what he will be like.  Hill is a MUCH better offensive option and hits that 3 with consistency.  That is all lost with Rondo.

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

@Jerry Gee I have serious doubts that it would have an effect as most people who attend Knicks games aren't serious Knicks fans unless they are wealthy. Maybe you should write Spike Lee and others of his ilk. As blog posters, we aren't contributing anything more than our 2 cents worth of non-solicited opinion.


Corporate purchasers, i.e. sky-boxes, suites, sections are an entertainment write-off. The accountants signing the checks for these purchases don't care. The execs entertaining clients don't care as long as the drinks flow. Many other tickets purchased in blocks become part of vacation junkets. MSG is just entertainment for visitors to NYC just like seeing a Broadway show is part of the package.


Again, many of the "true fans" here rarely attend a game or you wouldn't be on the forum during the game. We aren't giving the MSG organization much money-wise and we aren't part of the organization, so saying "'we' should trade so and so" and all the other fan-based "we" statements are conceits because "we" aren't part of "them."

Chris
Chris

@orlando_knickfan When did we pick up PG. Who did we cut to add him to the roster. Where did he come from. We possibly have one pg on the roster right now that can play both ends, and Mr Potato head won`t play him

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@orlando_knickfan 

Adding PG to the Knicks would be a big, big plus. He is a leading candidate for the MVP. 

Oh..... Oh.... Wait...... You probably meant any crappy point guard the Knicks can muster up.


Never mind,,,,,,

moneyball
moneyball

@orlando_knickfan JR played well last game....Get Shump to Canada!

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@C0P0 Well, to be fair, we do have our 2015 and 2017 picks but that is solely bc we're not allowed to trade them away lol.

1harris1
1harris1

How do you propose to get the corporations and high rollers in on your "boycott "? Since they're the ones who own the tickets to virtually all of the high priced seats and luxury boxes, maybe we should tell them to not have anything to do with MSG since Knick fans are fed up.

Oh wait, that's right. The corporations and high rollers couldn't care less about the regular Knick fan, and will be present for all games, regardless of the situation with the team. And those are the only types that Dolan really cares about.

Oh well, next plan. Maybe we could find some people to kidnap Dolan for awhile. Hold him in captivity until sometime after the 2020 draft, or whichever time it is next that we have a first round draft pick.

SheSaidSpikeWho
SheSaidSpikeWho

@orlando_knickfan @SheSaidSpikeWho I agree...Indiana has a nice chemistry going. Hill is their "weak link" because he's not a true PG but when getting Rondo, you always have to think about his lack of shooting and attitude. It would be interesting though...especially with the Larry Bird connection. 

orlando_knickfan
orlando_knickfan

@Knicks_Fanatic That "PG" is any we have right now.  They all equally are bad so there is really no advantage imo with any specific one.

C0P0
C0P0

@SportsMeccaNYC @C0P0 I don't wish ill will on anyone, but I wish he'd just let someone competent,  like  a Walsh and Grunwald type, back into the driver's seat and stay his dumb ass out of it. 


Unfortunately, that won't happen by suggestion. We need to say no more of this foolishness, with our dollars. Fans need to stop spending their money on this franchise and at the Garden. Period. 


Money is the only thing wealthy people understand.

Only way to get their attention is to hit them in the wallet. 


I say it's time to boycott MSG and the Knicks.

Chris
Chris

@Sandro Guedes @C0P0 You are not going to get market value for him with our current management. So I will disagree with your rebuild point. We will get average players and a low (high number) draft pick, so how does that help? 40 games is not rebuilding, its called mediocre 

C0P0
C0P0

@Sandro Guedes @C0P0 Dolan's holding out for Melo. Not going to happen that way. It will come down to "The Decision II"

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

@1harris1 To add to your point about ticket buyers not caring, I posted this as part of another post further down the thread: "Many other tickets purchased in blocks become part of vacation junkets. MSG is just entertainment for visitors to NYC just like seeing a Broadway show is part of the package.


Do the fans here, and I mean the fans here who rarely attend the games because they are here posting during games, really think that European visitors here on a vacation, because the Euro buys a lot on Vacation in the USA, really care about the Knicks, or do they just want to say they saw an NBA game while visiting NYC? Do the folks on a package vacation from Nebraska really care, or are they happy to say they saw an NBA game at "THE GARDEN" while in NYC? Real, fanatical Knicks fans are in short supply at Garden games.

C0P0
C0P0

@brookdon Yup. I'd take that supporting cast 'Bron had in The Cavs all those seasons right now. At least we'd be competitive and the games would be a joy to watch. This isht is just deplorable.

brookdon
brookdon

Melo is def top 10 still. The team around him is just horrific.

C0P0
C0P0

@SportsMeccaNYC @C0P0 @Sandro Guedes Sorry, but there aren't an avalanche of AVAILABLE players at Melo's skill level.


The facts say that he's still one of the best scorers in the game. #2 this season last I looked. Now, he's one of the top rebounders in the game for the season. So, you can argue how good or bad Melo is at times, like any other player, but it's disingenuous to say he's not, at the very least, a top ten player on a bottom 10 team. 


Rebuilding around Melo and THjr is the only thing this team should be tinkering with come the future. In order to do that, there needs to be smart people in the FO and the owner needs to open his wallet and step back. Way back.  Unfortunately, that is unlikely to happen and this team is about to sink into obscurity for another decade.