The roller coaster is starting to make my head hurt

Harris Decker

I’ve thrown my hands up on the steep declines. I have whiplash from the turns and I’ve bubbled with anticipation as they tried to climb to the top. It’s February and I’m officially sick of riding the Knicks roller coaster.

Carmelo Anthony

This season has been a disaster, yet the Knicks find themselves only a few games out of the final playoff spot. The trouble is, with so much hope comes so much disappointment. Friday night, the Knicks destroyed the Denver Nuggets, blowing them out in a full team victory. Sure, Carmelo Anthony had 31, but the rest of the team contributed immensely. While I want to be optimistic, facing the Thunder on Sunday could be a harsh reality check.

There is potential with this team, but I don’t think this is the year it is realized. Over the next few weeks, I’d like to see Steve Mills explore any and all trade opportunities to help build for the future. This is no longer a win-now situation. Even a guy like Kyle Lowry can only do so much to help a team that is completely out of sync.

Lowry is a guy I would try to target in the offseason, but that might be contingent on moving Tyson Chandler’s contract before the trade deadline. With Chandler still on the books, the only contract relief will come from Kenyon Martin, Cole Aldrich and Beno Udrih. In short, they won’t have much money to play with and will still be pushed right past the NBA salary cap.

So, what’s the point of it all? With players like Tim Hardaway Jr. showing improvements and Amar’e Stoudemire finally playing with fire and passion again, the Knicks are a watchable team. They are playing well at times and playing terribly at others. That said, I’m waiting on the sidelines for the time being. I’m waiting until the roller coaster comes to a halt before I get my hopes up that the Knicks are on the rebound. No pun intended.

158 comments
jeandd323
jeandd323

if the coach substitutes  Tyler or Prigs .. I will scream !

OLDKNICK
OLDKNICK

NEW THREAD IS UP FOR GAME!

Seth Nadler
Seth Nadler

Here's some positives on Melo's free agency, hopefully he's telling the Knicks I'm staying only if you improve this roster. If not I'm out, that would be Melo's smart play. Maybe melo's threat of leaving will force this team to do something with this flawed roster. If Melo does leave the Knicks have nobody to blame but themselves.

knickster
knickster

A point in Melo's favor: why should he sacrifice any money when there is a 99% chance Dolan will just waste it on some overpaid free agent? What if Melo takes less and the Knicks STILL put a crappy team around him?

bigdishing
bigdishing

Regarding Melo--why not tell him that we will pitch him last? Go get your offers, and then give us the last meeting. The Knicks have a tendency to bid against themselves/no one. Anyone old enough to remember when they resigned Allan Houston? Great player, deserved to get paid, but the Knicks gave him tens of millions more than anyone else would have. 


Melo would be OK signing for less if there was a clear plan for success. I think the Knicks will just give him all the money and they hope to get lucky filling out the roster. 

brookdon
brookdon

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't Melo be able to get the full max anywhere he wants anyway because of a sign and trade?

bockers
bockers

To all below who think you can trade Melo and get any FA to come to the Knicks or get value for Melo,you are crazy.



IMO, Melo will opt back in for the $30mm the Knicks can pay him.

knickster
knickster

The key to negotiating with Carmelo: he doesn't have too many options besides new york.

How many teams in the NBA meet the 4 conditions?

1. Must be an attractive destination to Carmelo ( he certainly does not want to play in Minnesota, Atlanta or Toronto, for example.)

2. Must be in a position to offer a max salary

3. Must be WILLING to offer him a max salary (not everyone is Dolan)

4. Must be in a decent position to play for a ring

When you take a deep look at it, you realize Carmelo may need new york more than new york needs him. To me, it seems about the only realistic place is chicago - but i doubt he could play for thibodeau.

bockers
bockers

REPOST  Trades and FA signings for a Title


JR Smith for Evan Turner.Sign Hawes as a FA after the season. Chandler,Shumpert and Felton for Lawson and Mozgov.Fire Woodson.


2015

Melo (SF)

Love (PF)

Lawson(PG)

Hawes(C)

Hardaway Jr.(SG)

Turner

Tyler

Murrey

Mozgov

2015 #1 pick

D.Salahudin
D.Salahudin

The Knicks are in a rough bind they need to do something by the trading deadline to the improve the team enough that Melo is encouraged to stay, but any move for a long-term contract could result in Melo still leaving and the team being left with a bad contract that could hamper 2015 FA. 


How do any of you feel about trading Bargs and Beno for Josh Smith? 


It seems like Dumars is set on trying to trade him because he isn't a small forward and doesn't mesh well with Monroe and Drummond.


Josh is the kind of  two way player that the Knicks need playing along side Melo. He has all-star talent, doesn't need a ton of shoots to impact the game, would improve our defense, could start at pf and not alter the way Melo likes to play. He also has a hefty contract that will be on the books for awhile, that's the main drawback. 

knickster
knickster

@Biggie Well, that has always been the problem: if the cap did not exist, Melo should get 40 millions per year. But with the salary cap being a reality, the Knicks need to leave enough room to put a contender around Melo...but that would be next to impossible if Melo is taking up 40% of the cap and the team has no assets or draft picks.

knickster
knickster

@Biggie Melo does not have many (perhaps none) good options at this point. Most attractive destinations are not available.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Biggie  

Yes, we are talking about whether to pay Melo in 2018-19 or not. The cap could be very different then.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@brookdon  

Technically, yes. The Knicks would have to agree to the sign and trade. They could simply refuse and remove that option.

lobcity
lobcity

Yea he would. He would just get an extra 20mill or something that he wont be able to get if he leaves.

brookdon
brookdon

Nah. The AK situation was diffrent being that he took a third of what he could have made in Minny. If Melo were to sign for $40 mil here maybe lol

knickster
knickster

@bockers You're right: these days, we couldn't even get 1/4 of what we paid for Melo! The team has an option, though: it can refuse to offer the max. It's not like Melo has a lot of choices....

lobcity
lobcity

Knickster...No one thought Miami could pull off the 3 players they have now. You really don't know Melo options until the day comes when he becomes a FA.

Sandro
Sandro

@knickster

If Melo has love for NY, if he wants to win a ring in NY, if his wife loves NY...

.. the Knicks should offer exactly the max amount of money that other teams can: 95 mil.

You tell him:

"We can cover any offer you can get on the open market, so here's 95 mil to you, as you can't get more anywhere else."

Given that the money is the same, we would see Melo's true New Yorkism there.

If he signs that contract, great for us and for him, as a ring becomes a possibility
If he refuses to sign that contract in NY, you'd know that he couldn't care less and his NY love was all a matter of money.

Simple as that.

knickster
knickster

@Kiyan Carter Easier said than done. It's not like he can say "Get me Rondo" and the Knicks just go to Boston, put him in a box and bring him to Melo.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Biggie  

There are only 4 teams over apron and  the rest have no desire to pay tax. The rule does eliminate the big money teams from the melo sweepstakes.

solar_lion
solar_lion

@Sandro @knickster95 million dollars is not the same in NY v. Dallas or NY v. FLorida or other tax free or low state income tax states. Please really think through your statements. I really would like that the salary cap be tiered to the State's level of income tax, then we can talk about money being relatively equal. Otherwise, it's bs to laud Lebron for taking a slight paycut in a tax free state like Florida.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Sandro @knickster 

The reason the Knicks came offer so much more is due to the CBA, which is designed to help teams keep their players. We can offer Melo 5 years through Bird rights. The most others can offer is 4 years.

knickster
knickster

@Sandro @knickster


I completely disagree with you, Sandro.  This is NOT about the type of person Melo is, his love for New York, his loyalty, etc...


To me, this is about the New York Knicks' front office doing what is best for the team. If the cap did not exists, I'd support giving Melo 200 millions for 5 years! But the cap is a reality and the team can't commit almost 40% of it to a single player - it's just not smart. The team has to make a competitive offer taking into consideration the supply and demand for Melo and the actual market conditions.

brookdon
brookdon

That's easy to type on the internet, but honest to God would you turn down $40 million dollars if it were a possibility?

Think before you respond.

bockers
bockers

@Biggie Wrong!  .Dolan will sign from

among Love,Aldridge,Rondo,Millsap or M.Gasol

in 2015.

OLDKNICK
OLDKNICK

@knickster  What are those other restrictions??? I dont know of them. Because I know the money doesnt scare dolan but maybe these restrictions do???

knickster
knickster

@Biggie Not true. The Knicks, for example, CAN'T just go out and sign a $18 million free agent at the end of the season. The cap imposes a lot of very real restrictions on team, besides the taxes.

knickster
knickster

@Biggie Nope. Payroll decisions are made base on the cap and all its complexities (tax, cap amount, exceptions, etc.). It's all about the cap.

brookdon
brookdon

I see what you mean now.

If Melo were to take $95 mil here when the players fought for Max players to get paid more to stay then yes the union would throw a fit but the owners probably wouldn't care

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@knickster @Knicks_Fanatic@Sandro 

The Knicks can't build a contender because Dolan runs the show. Miami has rings with 3 max players. Dallas won with Dirk getting the max. You aren't going to win a ring without a max superstar. 

knickster
knickster

@Knicks_Fanatic @knickster@Sandro There is a very good chance Dolan will end up with nothing to show for Melo - the alternative is to saddle the team with a contract that will make it impossible to build a contender around Melo. That's the dilemma facing our team.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@knickster @Knicks_Fanatic@Sandro 

Melo is not the reason the Knicks are where they are, it's Dolan. Melo is the least of our problems. If we let Melo walk for nothing as is being proposed, it would be tomfoolery. 

knickster
knickster

@Kiyan Carter The Knicks can't "move as much bad contract" as you think. That's part of the problem...

brookdon
brookdon

Wouldn't he also get it in a sign and trade?

1harris1
1harris1

@Sandro @brookdon But when they negotiated his contract to begin with, I'm sure they made assurances to him concerning the opt out clause.  The contract was obviously structured the way it was to allow him to make more money.  The Knicks knew that from the start.  If they do what you propose, they will alienate Anthony and he will leave.  It's seems clear though that the Knicks want Melo to stay.


Welcome to the world of professional sports, circa 2014.  The player can do whatever he wants, but the team always has to make good on its promises.

Sandro
Sandro

@brookdon

There's no possibility. That's the thing.
Other teams can offer 95 mil. The Knicks can offer 95 mil.

Where will Melo get 130 mil then? lol.

The Knicks show Melo that they are committed to sign him to the max he can get by anyone else while giving him a chance of competing for a ring (which Melo just said that "It is all that matters", and Melo shows the Knicks the loyalty to stay in a team that traded everything they had for him.

We're not taking 40 mil out of Melo's pockets because those 40 mil didn't exist to begin with.