Tim Hardaway Jr. is the 2nd best rookie in the league

Harris Decker

Tim Hardaway Jr. has had a great rookie season.

Tim Hardaway Jr.

After being drafted No. 24 overall by the Knicks, Hardaway Jr. was a guy that went widely overlooked in the draft. Still, Knicks fans — including myself — were excited when he was drafted out of the University of Michigan. At first glance, it’s easy to call him a top five rookie this year. I’m here to tell you that he’s the second-best rookie in the NBA.

If you look at all rookies on a per game basis, Hardaway Jr. is ranked fourth in points per game with 9.3, ninth in minutes per game with 20.4 and third in field goal percentage, shooting at a 46 percent clip.

Obviously, Michael Carter-Williams is the best rookie and the likely rookie of the year in the NBA. He is averaging 17.2 ppg and making a huge contribution on a nightly basis.

The numbers get a little bit more interesting when you look at them per 48 minutes. Hardaway Jr. is playing about 14 minutes less per game than Carter-Williams, but what if the two were playing comparable minutes?

Hardaway Jr. is averaging 21.8 points per 48 minutes, while Carter-Williams is just a few points ahead of him with 23.7. Furthermore, Hardaway Jr.’s field goal percentage sits 6 percent higher than Carter-Williams, and he leads all rookies shooting 40 percent from behind the arc.

Another really interesting category to look at is turnovers. In his 20.4 minutes, Hardaway Jr. is third among rookies with just 0.56 turnovers per game. That number is way ahead of others like Carter-Williams and Magic guard Victor Oladipo.

Obviously, the ancillary stats hurt Hardaway Jr. He is in the bottom half when it comes to steals, a category that Carter-Williams dominates with 2.24 steals per game. He is also in the bottom half in rebounds and assists.

Still, Tim Hardaway Jr. has had a great rookie season for the New York Knicks. When it’s all over, we might look at him as one of the few bright spots in a dismal season.

Considering the Knicks got him at the end of the first round, he has to be one of the better values from this past years draft.

234 comments
Josh Sustache
Josh Sustache

Hardaway reminds me of a combination between Ray Allen and D Wade. That's a serious weapon!

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

I am one of the biggest Melo fan...but, I would be piss if he leaves without the knicks getting anything in return.

Plus, to be honest, if I was Melo I would not resign with this dysfunctional organization!!


I don't trust that our front office is capable of building the right team around Melo.  Seriously, Melo would be smart to take less and go to the Bulls or anywhere else.

The more I think about it, we need to trade Melo....it hurts my heart to say this!!


This team sucks...it is what it is!!!!


newyorker9
newyorker9

hey man put up a post of james dolan meeting with mike woodson after losing on wednesday. i hope knicks lose tonight mike woodson will no longer be a knicks coach. seriously, fire him. melo is having a monster season, jr smith is back but I don't mind trading him  hardaway is a keeper do not trade him, amare is doing well, hope he doesn't get injured again. the guy is playing with confidence. prigs is a smart point guard and hustles he should get more minutes then felton, he's been awful, and play the young ones tyler, cole, moury. trade chandler, felton, shumpert, beno, andrea, smith for draft picks. that will help a whole lot the salery cap I hope melo gives knicks hometown discount if he wants to win a ring. and go for a  solid point guard not andre miller that's pathetic. we want rondo sign him in 2015 if knicks plan to wait till free agency. and kevin love  the most important thing get a real coach! JEFF VAN GUNDY! or THIBS! if Dolan makes the right moves we'll be good...i hope..

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

But recently, some players have grown a bit tired of Woodson pointing out the team's lack of effort after losses. They expressed their frustration privately in a group setting late last month, league sources told ESPNNewYork.com. And a few players communicated their frustration to Knicks management, league sources say. ESPN.com - See more at: http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm#sthash.DjkaJ4wn.dpuf


All our speculation was right on the money. The ssh¨t hit the fan long ago. Knicks' FO right now are up against it. 

If Woodson survives the deadline, we truly are fcked.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

The Knicks and the NBA draft. Over the last 10 seasons the New York Knicks have made 14 draft selections. There are others, I believe, where the picks where purchased after the players was drafted, so it's not complete. That would be Harrelson, Jordan, and Douglas, but that was just Dolan dollars. So 9 out of 14 is pretty good, especially when you consider that they come with inexpensive long term contracts.


Here are the players who have been rotation players- Ariza, Lee, Frye, Chandler, Gallo, Hill, Fields, Shumpert, Hardaway

Here are the misses- Thompson, Collins, Balkman, Rautins, Papanikolaou

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

If we don't start making trades before this deadline, Melo may be gone.  I am getting scared.  I would love to wake up tomorrow and the knicks is under new management!!

New owner, new coach, new GM...fire everybody who started working for the Knicks, when Layden was hired as the GM.

I am tired of this massive failure by this clueless organization!!

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@VerySilentJay  

A loss to Denver tonight could be the final nail in the Woody's coffin. Dolan turned down the trade for Lowry because he didn't want to get fleeced again by Uriji. He might be real sensitive about this game.

manchu
manchu

@VerySilentJay

The problem is no big name coaches want the job right now. If Woodson goes we get Herb coaching until the end of the season

Brostoevsky
Brostoevsky

I think it's a little unfair to include 2nd rounders as "misses" equivalent to 1st rounders. You can't even expect them to make the team in most cases

andthenjohnsaid
andthenjohnsaid

@Knicks_Fanatic  



insert all star player/ hill

lee/frye

chandler/gallo

shumpert/hardaway

insert superstar/insert player


with a lionel hillins/ doug collins type coach is title contention, and i think afforable under the cap(maybe chandler or gallo would have to leave)

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@Knicks_Fanatic  Fields, Shumpert, and Hardaway all had better rookie years than expected.

We all know what happened to Fields and Shump, and time will tell with Hardaway.


- Ariza only blossomed after he left NY.

- It took Hill way too long to be a contributor

- Frye's a one dimensional stretch 4 that could only work in an uptempo 3 pt shooting system

- Gallo's a nice player, injury prone, but by no means is he worth the ridiculous amount of money he's getting

- Chandler's a nice overall player, low bball IQ, would make for a great role player off the bench. Decent contract, but hasn't played more than 80 games in 3 seasons combined.


Beyond that, it's speculative to say how the Knicks would be with or without them. That said, the one constant is that none of these players are true difference makers, and giving up two of these (Chandler, Gallo) meant getting a player that can carry this team (Melo). 

In that sense, drafting did help this team acquire a star.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@Knicks_Fanatic How good would we be right now...if we build with those players?


We are not winning anything with those guys.  Those are all good players, not one is player that can take us to a championship!!

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@Knicks_Fanatic @VerySilentJay  There's a reason why that trade didn't happen. Ujiri was asking for too much for a player who's future is very much up in the air.

It appears Dolan finally learned a little something about not getting abused.

Brostoevsky
Brostoevsky

Agree with Jay. Change is needed. It's probably not going to turn the season around in terms of wins and losses, but maybe it arrests the negative culture of non-preparation, bad body language and limited effort. I'd also like to see the kids (TH, Shumpert, Tyler and Murry) develop. Let's find out what we have.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@manchu @VerySilentJay  It's clear that Herb will take over, no matter what.

Obviously he's no winning machine, but this team desperately needs winds of change.

I get the sense that the atmosphere is negative, that players aren't responding to Woodson, and that many just can't understand both his approach to the game and the way he's communicating.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@VerySilentJay @Knicks_Fanatic True it did...But, there are many Knicks fans who believe trading those players for Melo was very bad.  In fact, they wouldn't do it, if given a 2nd chance.



zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@Knicks_Fanatic

Isiah was a great GM at drafting...

Ariza, Lee, Frye, Nate, Chandler...very good mid to late picks.  Frye was a lottery pick.  Lee at 30 was a big time pick!!

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@zdiddy4nyk @VerySilentJay @Knicks_Fanatic   Bag that, I say.

Just look at their present situation.

- Gallo's a nice player. No difference maker, not a big time impact guy, and is getting over 10+ mil a year. Bad deal there.

- Chandler's a nice defender who can attack the basket, but his low bball IQ has him hoisting moronic shots and turning over the ball consistently. He's getting paid over 5+ mil a year (with an increase per) and for the past 3 seasons has played less than a 100 games. We can agree it hasn't worked out thus far.

- Mozgov? Yeah....who is that?



- Melo's stat line is better than those two guys combined. So, can it really be a dicussion? Me says no.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@Knicks_Fanatic @zdiddy4nyk

It is a crapshoot!!  It has too much to do with luck and what players are available in a particular year.

It is great to have the number 1 pick if Lebron, Melo, Wade is coming out.  It sucks having the number 1 pick when Kwame Brown and Anthony Bennett is coming out.


zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@Knicks_Fanatic @zdiddy4nyk

I am also addressing these knicks fans that are always complaining about giving up a draft pick for Melo.

You are implying that we should have stayed that route with our draft picks and therefore no Melo on this team.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@Knicks_Fanatic @zdiddy4nyk  What were the chances of knowing back then which players would come out of that trade?

- Do you think the Clips knew they were giving away K Irving when they traded B Davis to Cleveland?

- Do you think BK knew getting Wallace meant giving Portland D Lillard?


These moves are always uncertain. Looking back, everyone's an expert in hindsight.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@Knicks_Fanatic @zdiddy4nyk Curry was considered a top 5 Center at one point with the Knicks.  Curry had all the talent in the world to be a top2-3 NBA center...he just don't have the heart to do it.

It is very difficult to know what is inside of a player, when you see them do certain things on the court...TRUTH!!

solar_lion
solar_lion

Read my comment that I think every Knicks GM past Layden was succesful in carrying out ownership's (Dolan's) marching orders.

solar_lion
solar_lion

Exactly and like Isaih just following ownerships marching orders sold Crawford and Z-Bo for pennies on the dollar. Possible draft picks in the first round could have been obtained.

solar_lion
solar_lion

That's why his eye for talent served him in the draft where the only cost is a draft pick. that's also why it hurt him in free agency or the trade wire b/c there the cost included multiple draft pciks and long term scaled contracts that hurt the cap of the Knicks.

Tikki
Tikki

@Knicks_Fanatic @Tikki @manchu @zdiddy4nyk @refguy22

Yes; Lee was 1 year removed from restricted free agency - so the ball was in the Knicks' court whether or not to match.  To me it just seems completely illogical to draft a Plan B for one position when you lack a Plan A at PG and C, and there's no glaring talent gap between the selections.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@Tikki @Knicks_Fanatic@manchu@zdiddy4nyk@refguy22

There were just too many good potential PG for Walsh to pick Hill, when Amare is on this team.  We had no PG of the future, but we draft a back up for Amare.


I can't make this ish up...Walsh was a bad GM with the Knicks!!!

Tikki
Tikki

@Knicks_Fanatic @manchu @zdiddy4nyk @refguy22 @Tikki

It's one thing to take a flyer with the #18 pick, it's another to be in desperate need of a PG as a team utilizing a PG-reliant system, have a lottery pick in a PG-laden draft. . . and then draft a role-player PF.  (Don't get me wrong - I like Jordan Hill as an NBA rotation player.)


There's typically this debate regarding whether or not teams should draft for "need" or "talent" - Donnie/D'Antoni did neither with the Hill selection.

manchu
manchu

@Knicks_Fanatic @zdiddy4nyk @refguy22 @Tikki

And he drafted Iman Shumpert and Jordan Hill for us. Somehow he couldn't move up in the draft to get Curry and when he didn't get him he panicked and chose Hill with all of those point guards on the board. Indy owes him some thanks but I don't think the Knicks do

Tikki
Tikki

@Knicks_Fanatic @Tikki @zdiddy4nyk  

I know that, but like I said, no one bats 1.000 in the draft.  I Though Isiah's roster construction was misguided at best, the team had Marbury and Crawford on the roster already.  Obviously in hindsight, 17 other GMs might've made some other considerations as well.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@Knicks_Fanatic @Tikki@zdiddy4nyk

Rondo was a just a bad shooter at the PG spot...that is why he felt so far in the draft.  It is very difficult to think a player like Rondo would have been so good in the NBA.

Playing with KG, Pierce and Allen made Rondo into the player he is today.

zdiddy4nyk
zdiddy4nyk

@refguy22 @Tikki@zdiddy4nyk@Knicks_Fanatic He was better than Walsh at drafting players!!

Isiah knows talent...he doesn't always look at the total package with Curry.  He just saw how great of a talent Curry and Marbury was and overlook their make up as a person.

Tikki
Tikki

@zdiddy4nyk @Knicks_Fanatic  

People give Isiah a lot of grief for the Balkman pick, but it's the draft - nobody can hit 1.000.  Isiah did well with the late 1st-rounders the Knicks had at their disposal.