TKB Mailbag: Tim Hardaway Jr. vs. Iman Shumpert

From Rommel Jones: Do you think that Tim Hardaway Jr. has more potential than Iman Shumpert?

Ben Kopelman

Tim Hardaway Jr.In a word: no.

I think Hardaway can find a nice role for himself on this team and in this league as an athletic wing scorer, who can be the worst member of a starting five, contributing with swing-pass-spot-up threes, or the best player on a second unit where he can be aggressive, attacking the hoop, and — if he’s feeling it — putting up shots from anywhere inside half court.

With his athleticism comes defensive potential, but the two do not necessarily correspond, and Hardaway is yet to show off his defensive abilities. Hardaway’s decision making also leaves plenty to be desired, his shot selection at the end of the Pelicans game as glaring example. That said, he has much less experience on his NBA resume, so time will tell if he can learn to be a smart offensive threat and a stout defensive presence the way we all know Shump has the potential to be.

Whether either guy pans out to max this potential is another question altogether.




110 comments
grandpa54
grandpa54

th jr is better than shump and has more b iq than jr smith and shump. my solution to nyk problem is new coach ,trade jr smith felton for a pass first pg cut c smith add tyler  .drop herb Williams bring in Oakley and ewing

3sabreeze
3sabreeze

Woodson has to go immediately! You can't lose by 40 on your home floor! Please get rid of Guitar Jimmy!

3sabreeze
3sabreeze

This is really ridiculous that I have to sign in every single time I want to make a comment! Varrazano said he was gonna eff up this sight and he's a man of his word!

Blaze NYK
Blaze NYK

Its too early to say who has more potential.  But I tell you what.  If we could get rid of JR Smith and Felton in exchange for a big upgrade at the starting PG position, that is the way to go!  Not that it would happen.  But we should build around Shump and Timmy Jr.  If we could somehow keep Melo and build around Melo, Timmy and Shump that would be the way to go.  

NYJETSFAN com (NYK)
NYJETSFAN com (NYK)

I disagree.. too me it seems Hardaway has more of a bball IQ which will only get better with time as a pro. An area that Iman seems to lack a bit. Weird shots coming out of no wheres, out of rhythm 3's and sometimes seems to get caught up in sets. THJ seems to understand the game a little bit better and looks very comfortable as a pro ALREADY.. I think with time he could take Iman spot and I love Shump.

Blaze NYK
Blaze NYK

This new commenting system SUCKS!

El Ponce
El Ponce

He replaces JR....not Shump

chrisb
chrisb

Try Augustine, we need a pg . Cut Smith, trade JR for one of the bigs that Toronto has, and oh yea, pick up a new coach. This one can`t figure out why we aren`t playing any ball. And its not just the D end Woody, its both ends, and your pg is killing the team, your 6th man is dogmeat, and having Amarie on the court guarantees that your defense is going to be horrific 

tommy2b
tommy2b

That's a terrific picture of THjr btw.  He looks like an MMA fighter.

bigdishing
bigdishing

“You all see the offense,” Woodson said. “But I look at the defense. And if you can’t score then you better damn well make sure that they can’t either.”


Exactly. You're coaching a soccer team. 


DourSiesel
DourSiesel

i think the knicks should just trade JR for a PG if thats even possible

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/231021/Some-GMs-Wouldnt-Offer-Rudy-Gay-MLE-In-Free-Agency



Wow. That's how this guy's value's gone down. And to think about a year ago it caused such a huge rift between a coach and owners that it led to the coache's dismissal.I don't get the move for SAC though. They're tanking, as always, why would they want to add an awful contract and some high volume, low % shooter that can't carry a team.
Best part? TKB wanted to trade Melo for this guy.I swear, the things that come out of this place. 

po_diddley
po_diddley

Livefyre really stinks....I thought I was frustrated with the commenting on Disqus......

jax13
jax13

any way we can swing a trade for kyle lowery? or greivis vasuez?

chuco
chuco

Shump problem to me is he is always passing the ball he gotta be aggressive like his rookie year he use to drive to the basket draw fouls now he drives to the basket just to pass he gotta shoot find that rhythm what's the sense of having a SG that don't shoot 

PickNY
PickNY

All I'm gonna say WE JUST 3.5 games out of First PLACE!!! I'm not going to comment regarding who's better because it's FOOLISH!!! I'm OUT!!!

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

TKB: Mailbag This is what TKB is to become? What's next; show and tell?

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

Geez... this place is going bananas. People calling each other out, saying how wrong they were, praising other GM's and coach's work (even though if those very same individuals were here those same posters wuold spend their time bashing them...just because they belong to the Knicks organization).

Fact is, we're all rooting for the same team (with a few exceptions), and things aren't going quite well.


Imo, we gotta put aside the roster flaws. There's too many of them and not one particular trade can fix the multiple issues plaguing this team. To me, a different hand can get more out of the present talent in our roster (which is a lot more talented than our present record says). This hand SHOULD ONLY BE outside of what currently belongs to Dolan. It's not Herb, it's not Walker, and it sure isn't Allan Houston, who's been groomed to be a manager ever since he retired.

If there truly is an option to take over if Woodson is dumped, I'm all for it. If Herb, Walker, and Dolan's lackeys will be the ones taking over, than I say hell no. It's a lesser of 2 evils.

Unfurtunately, this team is quickly reaching a point where they can't turn back. It'll quickly become, "ok, let's see where we're at now, should we stick with Woodson for the rest of the season?" or, "it's time we dump Woodson and bring in new blood".

That will be the season's pivotal point, it's crucible. Ideally, the upcoming stretch of games, which is supposed to be "relatively simple" (nothing is for this team anymore), was an ideal tiem to bring in a new face to start working against an easier schedule. Thus far, everything indicates to that this isn't going to happen.

Realistically, I see no good trades that can help us. So many here have been proposing wild trades to get new PG's, a big man, etc, but we gotta be real, every Knick player's value is at an all time low. We'd likely have to give too much to receive slightly better players, and of course, the people that always b¨tch will b¨tch once again.

Like I said, it's a tough moment for the Knicks right now.

zebeto
zebeto

Kyle Lowry (top 15 PG) would already do wonders for this team..........Rondo would be Perfect though .

NYJETSFAN com (NYK)
NYJETSFAN com (NYK)

Amen brother... I've been screaming this from time. Felton is a killer. What is he good for? Other then having a quick first step and can get to the rack where he looks to score 1st usually what else is he good for? 


- Gets burned on D

 - inconsistent shooter 

 - doesn't command offense to run through him (LIKE IT SHOULD) 

 Felton typical takes the ball down the court and just sets a play up where the ball leaves his hands very early in the shot clock and rarely does it touch it again in that possession. 


 Hes our biggest problem right now bottom line. Felton is more of a problem then Chandler being out and that says a lot.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

Teams like Sacramento aren't going to get a max free agent. Maybe they think they can get Gay and then sign him to a more reasonable deal.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@po_diddley Well, the good thing about it is that it's still a work in progress, so if we keep making suggestions as to how to make it better, the guys here already told us that they'll do their best to polish the new system.

That's gotta count for something.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@jax13 If we go by logic, Toronto wants Vasquez as their starting PG for the long term. If not, why get another starting PG when you already have one. 

Lowry's on the block (as it has been reported), but what will make it tricky to trade him is that he's on an expiring year and he's probably looking to get paid, which gives no assurances to the receiving team that Lowry will want to stay with that team.

As it stands, one can assume (assume and nothing more) than Ujiri wants a core of Vasquez, Ross, DeRozan, and Valanciunas moving forward and to build around them. The tough task is to shed the rest of their contracts.

There's hundreds of different combinations every team out there can offer to get Lowry, but none of those teams will be assured that he'll want to stay and no one will know what kind of money he'll be looking for or how he'll be valued in the open market. He certainly is an attractive pieces, but there's too many uncertainties in acquiring him.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@PickNY Attaboy.

I don't care how far or close we are, statistically, to playoff territory. I'm worried that this team keeps putting ridiculous performances, especially in front of their own crowd.

I could not care two sh¨ts about hwo the conference is doing. I'm concerned about the amateur brand of ball this team is palying and how it can be turned around, regardless of what's happening with the other teams in the EC.

po_diddley
po_diddley

@Mr.Boots The next post will be:  


"Do you think that Tim Hardaway Jr. has more potential than Iman Shumpert?"

- Rommel Jones


Discuss. 

Mr.Boots
Mr.Boots

@VerySilentJay


I'll say it again. There is no point in replacing Woodson unless the rest of the coaching staff is replaced. The offense lacks any creativity or variety; that won't change without a quality offense coach. The defense struggles; that won't change without a quality defense coach.


Giving Woodson "more time with his family" won't change a thing if the new coach inherits the current group of coaches, and adding a couple guys of his own without dumping the current guys will only add to the coaching clutter that exists now. The players will still be getting much of the same coaching they are getting now.


It is time to kick Herb upstairs to the FO. Give him a Community Relations position or make him a Garden greeter. I'm sure they could whip up a blue vest with orange lettering.


D. Walker isn't an answer. If you watch the sidelines, he is constantly talking to the players and they seem to be listening. Whether he's coaching offense or defense, we can see the result. It ain't pretty.


If the organization, I use that term loosely, doesn't want to blow up the team, then they have to blow up the coaching staff, not just replace Woodson.

po_diddley
po_diddley

@VerySilentJay We need to win a bunch of these next games to stay relevant until Chandler gets back.  I think that most people grossly undervalue what he brings to this team.  Once he's back, we'll see where we are at....hopefully a wheel or two are still attached to the wagon.  

El Ponce
El Ponce

@NYJETSFAN com (NYK)  Theres not enough likes of this post to give it justice.


Felton is the reason we are this bad....and not really his lack of production but his surplus of minutes as well. 


If Woodson and Felton were substituted with Jeff Van Gundy and Reggie Jackson we would be top in our division. 

lindro88
lindro88

@VerySilentJay @chrisb JR has zero value right now. In fact I'd go so far as to say the only time JR would have any value is if some other team wanted to get rid of there own knucklehead.  Look at how little interest there was for him in the offseason.  A player with his talent, coming off a career year couldn't do better than 3 years 18m.  That says it all in a league where role players who play 18 minutes a night make the same or more than he does. 

chrisb
chrisb

@VerySilentJay @chrisb Sometimes it is addition by subtraction. We have too many 2s, we are playing Shump at the 3 to give him minutes, we already have 2 3s in Meta and Melo, Bargs is a 4 we play him at 5, Cole and Murry get no burn. This team is a comedy of errors and mismanagement. The cleansing must start someplace, this team is self destructing before our eyes, where would you start? Some teams seem to be cleaning house, we seem to be unable to do anything, coach, manage figure out a direction. It reminds me of the era after the great teams of the late 60s mid 70s. It was abysmal. Thankfully LI had the Nets. Now the Nyets are equally disfunctional. We could put both teams on Saturday Night Live

BigChiefTriangle
BigChiefTriangle

@knickfan2 I agree.  It seems like every other thread he's bringing up the fact that over the summer some random poster suggested Beno starting (less ridiculous prior to seeing him play this year), and that another random poster called Tyson little more than a help defender (and you can almost hear the snorts of derision from his direction when he recalls these ridiculous statements REPEATEDLY). 


Give the "holier than thou" attitude a rest, VeryLongEssayJay (KIDDING with the nickname, don't take it as an insult ... just a joke)

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@knickfan2


Your pov, more than fair, and I've never been to shy away from my own comments.


- I like Hollins because he's a comitted, defense first, in your face type of coach. True, his CV isn't particularly filled with accolades, but I like his approach to the game. Offensively he could use some help, but I like the way he gets on people's faces.

- I did like Baron Davis. Given a dire and precarious situation at the time, I thought he was a much better option than Bibby or a Toney D that had a complete breakdown. 

- I also brought Arenas at that point in time, but I mentioned him as a guy to try out and see how he could do in a work out. Again, because I thought he was a better option than Bibby.


This is a blog. Radically different pov's is what makes this place tick. 

And btw, you don't like someone's comments, then don't answer to them. Ignore it. I don't really see the need for name calling, even with those who choose to call people out or insult.

And, all due respect, but if you don't like someone's comment, don't waste your time responding and read something that you actually find important. 


(And if you don't think Rudy Gay's value's gone down... again, your pov. You probably wanted him for Melo).

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@BiggieSmalls I actually think they took a step forward. Vasquez is a strong PG that's been flying under the radar, Patterson's a solid big man who has a mid range game and can help on the boards. Rudy Gay has seriously struggled this season, especially with his shot.

A core of Vasquez, Ross, DeRozan, Patter, Valanciunas (assuming that's what they're choosing to go with) certainly has a lot of potential. And, within the context of the EC, they've played decent bball.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@Knicks_Fanatic SAC isn't thinking about FA. Trading for Gay is a sign of this. Even though they've got flexibility, they're well on course to get in the top 5 for a lottery pick.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@VerySilentJay 

Perhaps Uriji is just acquiring pieces and shedding long term contracts. He traded Gay and took back what he could get. Whether or not he keeps Vasquez is to be determined. He is a RFA after the season, so it could depend on what Vasquez gets offered or how much he is looking to get.

Any player traded before Dec 20th can be traded again before the deadline. I'd assume there will be lots more wheeling and dealing.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@Mr.Boots @VerySilentJay I agree.

If you bring in a new coach, may he come in with new staff from top to bottom. 

Herb unfortunately, is a key cog in the Dolan's lackey chain, so he'll remain there, probably forever.

If Woodson's let go only to let his staff take over.... It won't help at all. Things may even be worse.

If Woodson's let go, bring in a new face who brings in a staff of his own.

Likeliness of that happening? That's the true quetsion.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@po_diddley @VerySilentJay Agreed, people here for some reason seem to think Chandler isn't a key cog in this team.

Some has gone as far as say he's only a "help defender" (that made me laugh for days).

Question is: can the Knicks, with their current level of play, hustle, and coaching, put a winning stretch together until Chandler comes back?

To be quite honest, after what we've seen this season, I can't with a straght face say that this team can actually put together a string of good results against disciplined teams.

So what happens then? What happens if we "hope for the best" in the upcoming stretch and prey that the team is closer to .500 than they are now when Chandler comes back and they aren't? How far below .500 will we be until Chandler's return? Will his return be enough?

As things stand now, is it really realistic to expect a winning stretch?

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@chrisb I agree that the team lacks balance and that it isn't assembled properly. 

I don't know if Agustin is the answer,  and I don't know if they'll take another 2 when having Ross and DeRozan.

NYKnickerBocker
NYKnickerBocker

You never know until you try.  There has to be someone out there looking for a streaky weed head coming off of knee surgery.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

I've only seen a bit of Toronto so far, but they aren't that bad. They are 14th in defense and 17th on offense. Here is what they will look like, with the additions;


PG- Lowry, Vasquez, Buycks

SG- Derozan, Ross

SF- Salmons, Fields

PF- Hansbrough, Johnson, Patterson, Novak

C- Valanciunus, Hayes


That doesn't look like a bottom five team in the East.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@VerySilentJay  

Gay and Derozan were a bad fit together.  Maybe Toronto will be better without him. You never can tell. But having a high volume, under 40% shooter isn't helpful. 18.6 shots to score 19.4 is awful. 

Tanking isn't easy in the East with so many bad teams. Toronto is just outside the playoffs right now.


VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@Knicks_Fanatic @VerySilentJay What I don't get is that he would've been fighting for PG's both in Lowry's or Vazques' case (unless he offers him an extension before he becomes an RFA). Being an RFA means the market dictates your value, which, 90% of the time, it means that player will be overpaid.

In Lowry's case, he's got no restriction so he only has to see what type of money he gets after this season.

In any case, there are scenarios where they can lose 2 PG's (if they choose not to match for Vasquez).

I think the question is: is this a move to let everyone go and tank or make the best out of the core they have just established.

If the season ended today, Toronto wouldn't get a top 5 pick, so it really is up in the air to see what Ujiri's plan is. You may put together a team to tank, but it doesn't play out that way most of the time. The way Boston and Philly playing, for example, leaves them out of the race for a top 3 pick, but for example, Milwaukee, Utah, and SAC are in a prime position to be top 3.

Too many variables, including no one knowing what's going on inside Toronto camp.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@NYKnickerBocker I think that's because the influence of the vets were a lot more relevant than we thought.

Let's remember, also, that KT's play was key in the team's turnaround.

This time, we don't have vets to keep the locker room calm and to balance things out on the court. Imo, there's a serious lack of leadership in this squad, and the lack of vets has shown that.

And, of course, it's also clear that Woodson's can't cut it without the vets.

For all those who bashed on the vets, I hope they're understanding how important their influence is, at every level.

NYKnickerBocker
NYKnickerBocker

@po_diddley

What surprises me most is that we were in a similar situation last season and did well without Chandler. Never expected this.

There was a lot if talk (me inlcuded) on how the team was improved / deeper compared to last season. Sure doesn't look that way right now. Perhaps the dynamics change drastically when Chandler returns, but it's not a good place to be. We needed a backup big and never got one and it is hurting us right now. I would at least use Aldrich right now. I mean, how much worse can it get?

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@po_diddley @VerySilentJay I don't know if "legit" is the term, but they look like a disciplined team that does not stray from the game plan, which already puts them light years away from us.

However, if they keep playing their brand of ball, they won't be close to a top 5 pick, which is what Ainge is aiming for.

That's the tough thing about tanking: players have pride. They're not gonna play to lose, and if there's enough talent and good coaching, perhaps you won't reach the playoffs, but you can finish 9th or 10th, which leaves you out of top 7 lottery pick territory.

po_diddley
po_diddley

@VerySilentJay @po_diddley

Exactly.  Unless they have a great coach, a team is bound to implode.  


That's what makes the Celtics team very impressive so far - Stevens looks legit without an All-NBA point guard. 

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@po_diddley

How many teams out there are an injury away from disaster though? You can argue that 70% of the teams of this league are an injury away from disaster.

- If LBJ goes down, Miami won't be the same. Wade can't carry a team and Bosh has established himself as good third option

- If Paul goes down, the Clips are nothing more than an 8th seed

- What happens to Portland if LA goes down? Lillard can't do it all on his own (I believe he will, but he's not there yet). They lose their main scorer and main inside threat.


The list goes on. Few teams can make it. Only a few.

- Bulls: Thibs is such a good coach that he can pretty much adjust to any scenario (as last season showed). This time around he'll have a much tougher task, since he doesn't have scoring punch and 3 pt shooting without Nate and Belinelli

- SA: Pop is a beast, and every time he's pulled his big 3 for more than 1 one game, the rest of his team has played very well.

- Indy: they have great coachind and a very well balanced roster. Maybe if George goes out they can suffer offensively, but they have great inside D to make up for that.


po_diddley
po_diddley

NYKnickerBocker

I agree with you NYKB; however, I think that every team in the league is one key player away from a potential "disaster".  

Interestingly enough, it doesn't necessarily have to be their best player.  I think that if you take away a player like Noah, Hibbert, D Jordan, Bosh, or Ibaka, the makeup of a team changes drastically and they are going to seriously struggle.  Given that most of those teams don't have a viable backup (unless I'm forgetting someone) that can absorb those roles, they would struggle.  

Did I expect us to struggle without Chandler?  Without a doubt given the silly construction of the roster.  Did I think we would be 5-14?  No, but I think we should be more around 9-10, given that we we should have beaten Indiana, Houston, Charlotte, and Denver.  Had those games gone the other way, we would have about half the panic posts on this blog. 

Do I think that it is being blown a bit out of proportion this early in the season because we are the Knicks?  Absolutely.  It's perfect fodder for the media and gives them a headline everyday for a huge fan base. 

NYKnickerBocker
NYKnickerBocker

Regardless if we improve when Chandler comes back - we just prove we are basically one injury away from disaster.

I understand that Chandler is a big piece to the team, but no way would I have figured it would all fall apart without him.