Last year’s formula failing this year’s Knicks

Harris Decker

Last year, the formula was pretty simple: Let Carmelo Anthony and J.R. Smith break down defenses while Raymond Felton, Jason Kidd, Iman Shumpert and Steve Novak sat outside and waited to hit threes.

novak475

The formula resulted in the Knicks being the best outside shooting team in the league. They hit 891 threes while ranking fifth in the league in three point shooting percentage. They were simply incredible in that regard.

This season, we’ve seen a lot of the same. Or, at least, the Knicks are attempting to use the same strategy. Against the Pacers, Anthony was 3-for-3 from behind the arc. The rest of the team was a combined 1-for-16, or roughly 6.3 percent. Shumpert and Smith were each 0-for-3 and worst of all, Tim Hardaway Jr. was 0-for-5.

If one player gets cold, it’s easy for a team to overcome it. But when you’re facing a team like the Pacers, who play a smothering defense, you can’t slip into the trap of letting the entire team fire away from the arc.

Thursday night, this spell hit the Knicks, combining with the Pacers season-high 117 points, to equal the teams second loss in two games.

Friday night, they take on the Clippers at home. It will be a pressure-packed game with the Knicks in desperate need of a win to turn things around.

117 comments
xmenreturn
xmenreturn

New thread up about whether the players faith in Woody is fading?  I'm going to wait for the thread on whether the fans faith in Woody is fading. 

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

The .500 Report

We need to go 26-17 over the last 43 games to finish at 41-41. After the Monday Nets game, the season will reach the halfway point.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

Is Andrea Bargnani the new Landry Fields? Looking at the stats from Fields last season in NY and Bargnani so far as a Knick, they are rather similar. Bargnani with his 44-29 shooting looks much like Fields 46-26. Bargnani takes more shots and grabs a few more boards while Fields gets more assists and steals. Maybe Bargnani isn't a better Novak, he might just be a better Fields. Although that doesn't account for Fields edge on defense.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=bargnan01&y1=2014&p2=fieldla01&y2=2012

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

We haven't followed last year's formula, which was to start 2 PG, Felton/Kidd Felton/Prigioni, and play Melo at the 4. We decided to go big and add Bargnani. We have been rolling with Bargnani/Chandler Bargnani/K-Mart as the 4-5 combo. We decided to not follow it and go big, because as Woody says, "The East is big."

Nick White
Nick White

WE NEED TO TRADE TYSON/JR/RAY FELTON. SOMEONE WILL TAKE TYSON FOR SURE JUST FORCE JR ON THEM AND SEND RAY TO A 3RD TEAM. GET BACK 1 STUD PG OR BIG AND 2-3 ROLE PLAYERS OR PICKS. TYSON IS A SHELL OF HIMSELF AND JR AND RAY ARE GARBAGE.

Tikki
Tikki

@Knicks_Fanatic 

Seems do-able.  Knicks have been .500 (I think?) since December 1.  A good showing through this upcoming homestand would help.

rico
rico

@OLD_KNICK "Ham"? what is "GOING HAM ON DEM" mean?  Please splain'

MeloStat301
MeloStat301

@BiggieSmalls Yup, Knicks will go 6-2 on the homestand and be 21-26..On their way to turning this thing around completely.

ds2488
ds2488

@Knicks_Fanatic The difference is Bargs shooting 29% from 3 as a power forward/center.  Landry was doing even worse as a "shooting" guard lol.


And tough to compare percentages for me when Bargs is asked to do so much more than Landry.  Landry was legitimately the 5th option every time he was on the floor, most of his points came from wide open dunks and putbacks.  Bargs is probably our 3rd option, getting and taking a few shots in isolation sets.

ds2488
ds2488

@Knicks_Fanatic Problem wasn't adding Bargs, it was the "coach" going big.  Bargs is theoretically a good center in a small ball lineup (and the numbers shockingly bear that out in terms of offensive efficiency with him at the 5 and Melo at the 4).  The bigger problem is that Bargs is always playing with one of the 3 of Stat, Tyson, or Kmart imo.

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@Knicks_Fanatic 

Did you not see how Stephenson RAPED Prigioni in the playoffs? Neither the 36 year old slow footed Euro or the fat felton can guard pgs this year and against 2 guards they would get abused nightly! If that kind of abuse turn you on then keep rooting for it! 

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@Nick White 

I suggested this trade a couple of weeks ago. Trade Chandler and JR to the Lakers for Gasol and Wesley Johnson/Jodie Meeks. Gasol is better than Chandler and this trade would clear 20 million off of next year's salary cap!

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@Tikki@Knicks_Fanatic 

If you subtract the 9 game losing streak from our 15-24 record, we have been a .500 ball club. We need a 9 game winning streak to balance that out.

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@BiggieSmalls Isn't that the same Stephen A Smith you quoted a week ago to prove your pt?  My My, how quickly you turn on folks! 

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@ds2488@Knicks_Fanatic 

I just want to interject another comparison, rather than the usual Novak versus Bargnani. Novak shot 45% from three in his brief Knick career and did even less than Fields.  You can't compare Bargnani to Novak, other than they were traded for each other. 

Fields was a starter and so is Bargnani. They played about the same minutes. If we switched players and were starting Fields at the 3 and Melo at the 4, rather than Bargnani at the 4 or 5, we probably would have about the same record.

As far as the 3 point shooting percentages, 29% is 29%. It really doesn't matter what position you play. Bargnani is taking more threes than Fields did. Both are terrible.

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@ds2488@Knicks_Fanatic 

With AB you need a rebounder and paint defender who is also not offensively challenged. It wasn't by accident that the tandem of AB and K-Mart won 5 out of six games playing with each other!

Tikki
Tikki

@knicks50 @Nick White  

"Gasol is better than Chandler and this trade would clear 20 million off of next year's salary cap!"

Which would accomplish nothing other than lower Dolan's luxury tax bill.  Knicks are due for ~$90M in 2014-2015.  Knock $20M off that amount and the team is still over the ~$60M cap.

Nick White
Nick White

@knicks50 i think we should trade jr and tyson to boston for rondo and humphries

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@Knicks_Fanatic I know. I'm just being an a#s!  But I'm just trying to take it a game at a time with this team. We surely are not better than last year. 

Tikki
Tikki

@Knicks_Fanatic @Tikki 

Well, those 9 wins don't all HAVE to come in a row . . . though 2 out of every 3 would still be tough to pull off over 30 games.

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@Knicks_Fanatic@TikkiWOW! If you subtract our losing record from our record, we have a undefeated team!  We need a time machine and the Dream team to balance that out!  YIKES!

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@xmenreturn 

The trailer park crowd is a whole 'nother category below redneck from what I can see from my fairly new townhouse!

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@Knicks_Fanatic LOL What?  Rednecks in the South don't know about those things dude! 

You must live in a real house instead of a trailer. You don't understand that South!  I bet you have all your teeth too!

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@xmenreturn@Knicks_Fanatic 

Not to get too political, because it's a waste of my energy, but you left out the following; home interest mortgage deduction, Roth and regular IRA's, tax sheltered retirement accounts, and a multitude of other benefits to the middle class.

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@Knicks_Fanatic  Yep watch them stand in long lines for their medicaid, medicare, food stamps, security checks and yell how Obamacare and the Govment is for lazy folks and will destroy America!  

It's truly like speaking with Biggie!  No logic at all! 

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@OLD_KNICK@rico 

I thought it was a Deliverance reference.


xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@BiggieSmallsLOL  I would be concerned about that statement but I know there's a 90% chance you disagree with it. 

ds2488
ds2488

@Knicks_Fanatic @ds2488 


I agree that you shouldn't compare Bargs and Novak, but that's what happens when they are traded for each other.


 I am in agreement that sub 30% just isn't getting it done.  We need better in order to justify him still shooting those.  But it still makes a huge difference in terms of spacing to have your 4/5 taking 3's than it does when your shooting guard is doing it.


You're probably right that our record would be largely the same, but that's not saying much.  We stink, and Bargs is not the kind of guy who is gonna carry a team.





HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@Knicks_Fanatic

I saw the game. A lot of Stephenson points came in transition and when a still sick yet overrated TC was manning the paint along with Stat cause Martin had gotten hurt! What you and it appears a few other fail to comprehend is that this is 2014 and there is a notebook on Felton, Prigioni and the coach and his defensive schemes! to me all three, Woodson, Felton and that old Euro Cat need to go or sit at the end of the bench!  

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@Knicks_Fanatic@Tikki

Yeah, Granger will be coming off the books so Bird probably won't be out bidden for the right to have Stephenson maestro his court, but maybe Stephenson wants to "come home" and run his own team. I like those odds better than the odds some Knicks fans had that LeFlop was coming to NY! 

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@knicks50@Tikki 

You might consider that Born Ready will stay put in Indiana, rather than come into a rebuilding team. If they win a chip or make Finals this year, no way he is going anywhere.

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@Tikki 

If I was GM I would also cut Stat and use the 3 year payout rule so that his salary would only be 8 million next year! Then I would let Carmelo opt out and sign "Born Ready to a max contract and go from there!

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@knicks50What, you don't like big boy ball?

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@knicks50I hear ya but maybe our Knicks can just get about seven 7 footers and Melo so that we don't need a PG because our players can just throw the ball up high and never dribble.

We can revolutionize the game! 

HypoCrit_calNYKfans
HypoCrit_calNYKfans

@xmenreturn

Against Indiana you need offensive bigs who can pull Hibbert away from the basket as well as to get him in foul trouble in games, Gasol can do that and Chandler can not! Plus it will only be for the rest of this season because Gasol is a free agent next year!