With Clark and Brown in, does that mean Jimmer is out?

Harris Decker

hi-res-184038946-jimmer-fredette-of-the-sacramento-kings-looks-on-during_crop_exactThere’s been a lot of talk over the last few days about who the Knicks will bring in to fill the roster spots vacated by Beno Udrih and Metta World Peace. We got that answer on Tuesday when it was reported by multiple sources that Earl Clark and Shannon Brown would sign with the Knicks.

Both players are journeyman guys who can play situational roles on a team. Clark is a defensive specialist who could likely spell Carmelo Anthony at times while Brown is a spot up shooter with some ability to get to the basket. While Brown is listed as a point guard, he’s played a minimal amount of minutes there over the past few seasons.

With word that Raymond Felton will travel with the team for the remainder of the season, it seems likely that Brown will get minutes at shooting guard and not see much time at the point. It’s probably for the best.

This season, Brown is scoring just 2.3 points per game and adding less than an assist. That’s a far cry from his 2012-13 numbers which had him in double figures in points and a field goal percentage nearly double what he’s shooting this year (28%).

Similar to Brown, Clark had his best season last year for the Los Angeles Lakers. He averaged 5.5 rebounds and 7.3 points per game over 59 games. The 23.1 minutes per game that he was playing for the Lakers took a hit this season in Cleveland and will likely take another hit in New York. After all, Anthony is playing 40+ minutes per night.

So the question remains, with these two veteran players coming in, does that close the door on a younger, higher upside signing like Jimmer Fredette?

Fredette has played the last three seasons for the Sacramento Kings where he’s played less and less each season. This year he’s down to 11.3 minutes played per game. While his minutes plummeted, his effectiveness increased. This year he’s shooting a career high 48% from the field and is even better from outside. With just 5.9 points scored per game, he is averaging 18.7 points per 36 minutes played. That’s 7.3 more (per 36 minutes) than Felton.

With Clark and Brown signed, it seems highly unlikely that Fredette would be considered an option despite his relatively high upside and young age (he’s just 25). I’ll be the first to say that I’m disappointed in that decision and mark my words, if Fredette gets things together next year, I’ll be pointing another finger at Steve Mills.

95 comments
rico
rico

Beno is a Grizzlee


Roddy B going tp Celts


Granger the Clips


Butler to the Heatles


Metta to ????


C0P0
C0P0

The dumbest FO in sports continue to straighten the legacy. 

Jimmer was a no brainer over keeping Felton and getting Brown, who I liked 2 years ago maybe, if you had a brain.

SMFH.

Jimmer is 25 with an upside.

andthenjohnsaid
andthenjohnsaid

buyout aldridge when kmart and bargs come back he will get no burn anyway.. use that to bring in granger

then play small ball with granger and melo at the 3 and 4 if small ball is what we are going to do..

jax13
jax13

Don't get me wrong, we have to battle the rest of the season for an 8th seed. Maybe the team has a strange rallying cry behind all the turmoil n negativity n start to click its way to postseason.....

One can hope......

Than after season start the plan for 2015.....

jax13
jax13

Maybe after season n a team like okc falls short. Maybe they would do a better deal for shump n Tyson....draft pick, Reggie Jackson n Kendrick Perkins type deal.

Matthew Fraguela
Matthew Fraguela

Jimmer probably wanted nothing to do with NYK. Let's see where he signs first (OKC, SA, MIA).  On the surface, it's obvious this was the main guy to grab for NY (buy-out shopping). 'Melo needs shooters, we have no draft picks so Fredette, along with Tyler, could've been 2 steals for us, to salvage that draft deficiency.  Knicks will be forced to trade Shump or Hardaway anyway, so not an issue to bring in another SG.  And, he couldn't be a worse PG than Felton.  I have to believe they were told: NO WAY.  Otherwise, just another bonehead decision from our front office. Why ruin a 14 year run of incompetence tho.

Brian Webster
Brian Webster

Now I'm even more confused as to what the point was in buying out MWP and Beno who were both on 1 yr deals? To sign 2 other vet journeyman guys but worse and who still won't play? At least now they shouldn't play I suppose

kidrobot
kidrobot

This is another case of the Knicks being clueless.  Fredette is not a total bust- he just hasn't been given an opportunity to play.  The Knicks never have lottery picks and always find a way to pass up on the logical transaction.  We had the opportunity to simply pick up Kendall Marshall- FOR NOTHING. They did nothing.  We could have had Eric Bledsoe- the Clippers gave him away for NOTHING.  I never read any interest on our part whatsoever.  We should sign Jimmer.  Who knows.  You would think Dolan would want a draw at the very minimum.  We would have leverage to sign Jimmer to a team friendly 2 year deal and hope he outplays it once our 2015 situation is a bit more clear.  Jimmer Fredette is no worse than a Steve Kerr of Jim Paxson.  It's crazy that we make such HORRIBLE decisions as an organization

mike
mike

PATHETIC MOVES. Clark is fringe back up player who does not score. and brown is a career backup . WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THIS? FOR THIS YEAR? THEN GO AFTER DELONTE WEST IF YOU NEED WINS. OR FREDETTE, OR GRAINGER IF ANYTHING FOR INSURANCE ON MELO IF HE WALKS ( WHICH HE SHOULD IF I WERE HIM). THIS WHOLE ORGANIZATION IS PATHETIC. IM JUMPING OFF THIS FRANCHISE WHO CANT TELL ITS OWN HEAD FROM ITS @$$$ SIMPLY SICK!

knickstape
knickstape

ATTENTION:  WE DONT NEED JIMMER WE HAVE MURRAY WHO IS A BETTER DEFENDER AND HAS MORE POTENTIAL!!!!!!

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

If you are arguing the merits of Jimmer and Shannon Brown, we are in a heap of trouble. Mills is making his moves, Udrih and Metta for Brown and Clark. This isn't looking good so far for Mills and Dolan.

Seth Nadler
Seth Nadler

What's point of Clark if Doofus will keep playing minus?  As long as minus plays the knicks have no chance, is it the 11-31 record when minus plays isn't enough of a sample size

bigdishing
bigdishing

We are talking about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic after it's hit the iceberg and is sitting on the bottom of the ocean. 

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

Shannon Brown FG% :

2011: 42% , 36% 3pt

2012: 42% , 27% 3pt

2013: 28% , 0% (less than 5 attempts) 3pt

Earl Clark FG%:

2011: 36% , 0% (less than 5 attempts) 3pt

2012: 44% , 33% 3pt

2013: 37% , 34% 3pt

Jimmer Fredette FG%:

2011: 38% , 36% 3pt

2012: 42% , 41% 3pt

2013: 47% , 49% 3pt

Now we signed 2 guys that basically play the SF position in which Carmelo will continue to play 40+ minutes a night. Iman just went down so why not grab another shooter off the bench for a 10 day contract. We are top 5 in the league for 3 point attempts why not sign a guy who can actually hit them. Yes his defense is terrible (Like Felton's/Amare's) but none of this matters because we switch EVERYTHING. Sign Gary Payton in his prime but none of that matters if he is guarding Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol in the paint.

Low risk and good public relations move for the Knicks (which we can use cant we?). If you guys are right about Jimmer then we cut him.

lindro88
lindro88

Jimmer makes more sense than Shannon Brown.  At the very least he can dominate the starters in practice.  

rico
rico

I'd like to see JImmer on a 10 day. He could play the defacto Novak roll and his passing isn't bad so the knicks in a 4th quarter say switching out players on O and D for max effect could certainly use JImmer to space the floor with Melo, THJr, JR and Jimmer. That's a bomb squad.  A couple of game-winning shots or the ability to bury another team with 3s and we got heroes again?


For pennies on he dollar why not find out?



VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

If the point is to strengthen our PG situation, why not bring in Roddy B fow a work out?

It sucks that the geniuses haven't even thought about it....

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

How is no one talking about how awful Amare was against Dallas yet again? Literally everytime he stepped on the court Dallas would make a run. He has gotten worse at defense if at all possible. He should be out of the rotation. One highlight jam doesn't justify allowing 10 layups on the other end.

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

Call me crazy but Novak was way more useful than we gave him credit for. He was a dead eye shooter and he was the main catalyst for not switching last year! When teams would see Novak on the court they would iso him to death. Every single player acted as if they just sipped on Jordan's lucky juice from Space Jam and tried to take him 1v1 which for the most part would result in a boxed out rebound actually. Kind of funny to think about. Maybe Jimmer could have the same effect lol

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

Imo, Jimmer sucks, has no upside, no potential. What you see now is what you'll get from him forever. He doesn't have room for evolution due to a series of limitations. 

Imo, there's no point in signing him.

He has infinite range, yes. If given the minutes. With those same minutes, he'll give up 3x times the amount of points he puts up. That's all he can do.

Pass.

And pass again.



That said, it's the type of player only the Knicks can make look like an All-Star.

And for those who want to sign him, who'd you dump off your roster? Aldrich? Personally, given all our issues with big men (AB out indefinitely, Kmart gone, Amare being disgustingly bad, et al), I'll stick with him, even though Woodson only plays him out of desperation. 


C0P0
C0P0

Sorry. "Strengthen". The auto-type on these damn mobile devices suck.  

rico
rico

@C0P0  It's not the FO they are officially called "THE BRAIN TRUST"  lol, sobbing into cocoa

jax13
jax13

Agreed, beno n meta could have helped if Woodson did not bury them

jax13
jax13

Jimmer might be a nice local story but too much of a liability on defense. We have guys that can hit threes n not defend already.....

OLDKNICK
OLDKNICK

@mike  And dolan could care less. That is what it is for knick fans.... 

Buck50
Buck50

You thik so? Idk

kidrobot
kidrobot

@Knicks_Fanatic   we already know this but Fredette is younger and still has potential.  What about Shannon Brown says that? He tried to make it on his own and failed

xmenreturn
xmenreturn

@Knicks_Fanatic Yep, the house has major structural damage and Mills is trying to change curtains in the attic.

lindro88
lindro88

@Seth Nadler  That's a great nickname.  Maybe next year the Knicks will have a jersey with nicknames, like the Heat did this year   A lineup of  "Felon"  "Minus"  "Knucklehead"   will be pretty fun to watch...

Keith Hayes
Keith Hayes

Jimmer is a liability on defense but regardless, have to believe they will consult the new coach for long term signings...I'm thinking they want defensive minded guys right now to make a last ditch push to squeak into playoffs or at the least end season on a good note to help entice Melo to stay...but the way he shot the lights out last time at the Garden I wouldn't mind seeing that 41 times a year...

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

@rico My point exactly. How bad is a 10 day contract. We have 10 other toxic contracts that run much longer but Jimmer is where we draw the line. His percentages have gone up every year but we are signing guys whose percentages have gone drastically every year.

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

@VerySilentJay Don't bash the brain trust lol I liked him when he was in Dallas but didn't he have a pretty bad injury? Also more of a scorer than a playmaker. Wouldn't mind it, looks like the Celtics are taking a good look at him.

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@onewhoknix  

Not trying to defend STAT here. We, once again, got beaten by 1-3 players. Calderon 20, Ellis, 22, and Carter 23. Scott, Teague, and Carroll put up over 80 in the loss to Atlanta. 

melo7
melo7

@verysilentjay jimmers at least a pg that can hit a shot when it's kicked out to him. What pgs on the Knicks can do that now? Let me know and then tell me again how you wouldn't wanna sign him

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

@VerySilentJay I was very impressed with Cole last game. His conditioning is better than it looks and he is blue collar. Being a blue collar worker is something Tyson forgot about when he signed that huge contract with us.

lindro88
lindro88

@rico @onewhoknix  I think Mills deserves one of those heartfelt commercials, with the "coming home' song playing.  A nice video of all the great things hes accomplished,  Maybe the last scene can be him in between Brown and Clark with them holding up there jerseys..

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@onewhoknix @VerySilentJay  Yeah, tough injury. But word is he's healthy and teams are taking a look at him.

Yeah, he was a score first guard, but his speed is able to break defenses down. We need some athleticism at that position.

JerseyFan1
JerseyFan1

Jimmer is a SG w/ very limited PG skills. Tight D will shut his game down, aka Novak.

buddhabing
buddhabing

I agree about the blue collar mentality but I was also impressed with his defensive instincts. Guy actually closed out on 3pt shooters effectively and contested forays into the paint by offensive players. Guy can be a useful player if only Woodson would use him.

JerseyFan1
JerseyFan1

When u compare the 2, Cole's offense is no worse than TC.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@onewhoknix @VerySilentJay  Tyson was our savior in his first year. By himself he turned this team into the 5th ranked offense in the league.

Make no mistake about that.

Last season he ran out of gas in the playoffs.

This year he clearly gave up on the coach.

Since it's a lost season, I'm willing to give Aldrich more minutes.

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

@rico @VerySilentJay @onewhoknix A backup PG who played for Dallas that once looked promising but had a tough injury so he kind of got lost int he shuffle. Like VSJ said he is a score first PG whose game reminds me of Barbosa.

rico
rico

@VerySilentJay @onewhoknix  who b Roddy B,

you mean Beaubois ?

Knicks_Fanatic
Knicks_Fanatic

@VerySilentJay @onewhoknix 

Chandler was the DPOY playing under the D'Antoni system or non-system. D'Antoni believed in his players, rightly or wrongly, and allowed them lots of freedom on the court. Chandler took over the defense and basically was the coach on the floor. Under Woody, he has less freedom and is tired of guarding PG's on the perimeter. 

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

@VerySilentJay @onewhoknix Im confused. This whole point was brought up because you said Tyson made us into a top 5 offense but now youre saying he revived the defensive culture. Did you mean top 5 defense?

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@onewhoknix @VerySilentJay  Provided energy?

He revived a lost defensive culture of a team thatdidn't even practice D under Pringles.

He's bever been a scorer, he's a defensive anchor, and did an amazing job at thatin fis first year here. 

onewhoknix
onewhoknix

@VerySilentJay Ok he provided energy. You made it sound like he was dropping 30 points a night. He can still provide energy but he quit on the coach which is just unacceptable to me.

VerySilentJay
VerySilentJay

@onewhoknix @VerySilentJay  Did you watch his first year?

He was monstrous.

Woodson's "ideals" hadn't kicked in and the team held its ground with Chandler anchoring the D. You could hear through the tube Chandler shouting instructions on the floor.

Granted, we were lucky that many defensive liabilities weren't playing, but for anyone who saw that team would know, they fed off of his energy and his leadership and communication.

Frank Gebel Jr.
Frank Gebel Jr.

@onewhoknix @VerySilentJay  You can have Chamberlain and Gary Payton out there if Woody keeps switching it doesn't matter! Bad coaching is bad coaching!